(Another) Ebay seller small claims court threat thread

haze23

So I've seen a number of threads where sellers have threatened buyers with small claims court proceedings following return issues. Generally, the advice is these are empty threats, ignore.

However, this thread shows things can get messy:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6473303/help-ebay-seller-made-small-claims-court-summons/p3

Both sides have separately agreed to ebay policy and ebay can intervene. This can muddy the waters, especially given the way ebay often acts let's say without considering the full picture. Is acting outside ebay then a realistic option?

My situation has a couple of different aspects. In one respect I'm not overly concerned, having simply followed ebay process, in another I'm wondering whether things can escalate without my knowledge.

Briefly. Electrical item purchased over Xmas period (2023). Arrived reasonably promptly, however, not working as expected. Messaged seller to request discount as it's a large-ish, heavy-ish item and I didn't want the hassle of collections etc. over the holidays. Seller refused so I reluctantly agreed to a return if they could arrange collection for the next day or so, which they said they would. Late in the afternoon they reneged on that and stated Royal Mail would want an 'engineer' to inspect. Really?

Sent a few follow-up questions the same day regarding what they had arranged, when, was this for a case they'd opened against RM etc. No response.

Fast forward approx. 3 weeks, with no word in between. On Ebay advice I opened a return request, stating it would unlikely to be straightforward, still open to discount etc. Ebay actually put in the request, which was pithy. Having ignored previous questions, the seller's response was an aggressive message stating they would open a small claims court action if I successfully obtained a refund (slightly simplifying). Not too sure what happened as a short time later a somewhat more contrite message came through, they thought a first message may not have been sent...

Bear in the mind the seller had ignored previous messages and paid no attention to my explanation of what the fault was. I called ebay to get their take on this. They were unimpressed with seller behaviour and immediately issued a refund, stating no need to return item. Probably a combination of breaking ebay policy and failing to arrange postage. Given the seller's attitude I did attempt to clarify where I stood with this. It is ebay's decision and AFAIK ebay has refunded me. I messaged the seller to the effect that AIUI ebay has paid (no response).

So, the seller has suffered no loss, ignore previous threat of action. Should the seller bring action, I'm confident they will struggle to make a credible case.

Where I have doubt is that I can't be sure that ebay hasn't recouped from the seller. This may encourage them to make a claim. Arguably that should be against ebay but I suppose an individual is an easier target. I also suspect that the seller is trying to have the item back and bring a claim against RM. Of course, their claim against RM should be completely separate and nothing to do with me.

The fly in the ointment is because this was over the holiday period. The item was not sent to my address (I was visiting), so I would assume any official letters would be incorrectly addressed. It is highly likely (I don't want to get into these details, sorry) that should this happen it would be well past any 'reply by' dates before I would even know anything about it, so would be unable to defend. So, how much could this be escalated under the circumstances and is there anything I can/could do about it? I am pre-supposing I will receive no emails from this person in terms of mediation or notice. And of course it is a hypothetical atm.

Really sorry for the long post but I think the details are needed. Oh yes, item value £25.

Spoonie_Turtle

Highly unlikely the seller will go to court for £25, especially as their case would most likely be thrown out since they've made no attempt to collect the item from you.

However, for your peace of mind: if any letters are sent to the delivery address, would anyone see them and know to forward them to you?  If it's a holiday property, could you contact the owners/management company to ask them to let you know if any post arrives addressed to you?

born_again

You could just tell the seller, they are free to arrange a pickup at their cost. 

haze23

Thanks for the responses. I realise it would be highly unlikely to be pursued, the crux really was about the notification process since they don't actually have a correct address, would they need to make reasonable efforts (i.e. message me) first etc.

I'll add here that ebay has confirmed the seller suffered no financial loss, so there is no claim for them to make. I think I'll still refrain from leaving negative feedback in this case!

So this is pure hypothetical. What onus is on the buyer to accommodate a return (especially given agreement to marketplace terms etc.)? For example, could one make collection conditional, e.g. it will be available Sunday between two and four, otherwise left outside at your risk?

se2020

haze23 said:

So this is pure hypothetical. What onus is on the buyer to accommodate a return (especially given agreement to marketplace terms etc.)? For example, could one make collection conditional, e.g. it will be available Sunday between two and four, otherwise left outside at your risk?

No, it has to be 'reasonable'
That would generally suggest that the seller could send a carrier to collect and would be under standard terms for booking a carrier.
Ie, allowing 24hrs notice to book a collection and then available on a weekdays from 8am-6pm.

RFW

se2020 said:

haze23 said:

So this is pure hypothetical. What onus is on the buyer to accommodate a return (especially given agreement to marketplace terms etc.)? For example, could one make collection conditional, e.g. it will be available Sunday between two and four, otherwise left outside at your risk?

No, it has to be 'reasonable'
That would generally suggest that the seller could send a carrier to collect and would be under standard terms for booking a carrier.
Ie, allowing 24hrs notice to book a collection and then available on a weekdays from 8am-6pm.

I think legally it depends on the terms of the original delivery, so if you ask for delivery on a Tuesday afternoon then it's not unreasonable to allow a collection only on a Tuesday afternoon. It's on the seller to arrange collection at a time suitable.
I don't know if the law has changed, it may well have done, but it used to be that if the seller couldn't arrange collection then they could furnish the buyer with funds to make a return.

GadgetGuru

eBay has provided you with your refund. 
The seller has their initial sale money.
No-one is out of pocket and eBay have been good enough to cover this. 
Thats the end of the story.
Seller cannot take you to court since they have not suffered any financial loss. 

What I wouldn't have done in your situation was to contact the seller back and inform them that you have received your refund. Thats like putting salt on the wound. You got your refund, it was best you just stopped communication at that point and move on. 

RFW

GadgetGuru said:

Seller cannot take you to court since they have not suffered any financial loss. 

A bit pedantic of me but anyone can take you to court, they wouldn't win and they'd be daft at any level but they can still do it.
Nothing to do with Ebay but it's happened a couple of times to me over the years. The person taking out the summons relies on an office somewhere just paying up when they receive a summons.

Miser1964

The seller is just sounding off, they won't be doing anything.

haze23

GadgetGuru said:

eBay has provided you with your refund. 
The seller has their initial sale money.
No-one is out of pocket and eBay have been good enough to cover this. 
Thats the end of the story.
Seller cannot take you to court since they have not suffered any financial loss. 

What I wouldn't have done in your situation was to contact the seller back and inform them that you have received your refund. Thats like putting salt on the wound. You got your refund, it was best you just stopped communication at that point and move on. 

That wasn't the purpose. At the time I did not have confirmation that they were not out of pocket (not that they didn't cause an escalation mind). This left communication open so they could refute and/or help head off their threat. I had presumed ebay had already informed them that a refund had been issued. Not everyone is trying to be malicious!

I can see above that 'reasonable' is up for debate re: collection too. Not going to go there right now!

GadgetGuru

eBay does not inform the seller that the refund has been issued if it is coming from their own pocket, The case is simply closed. When the case has been passed to eBay to decide the outcome, there is no longer any need to communicate with the seller. Whether the seller is out of pocket is nothing to do with you - eBay gave you your refund and made you whole. If eBay informed you to keep the item, then do so, since the seller already has payment for it - as mentioned above - he can try take you to court but would be silly to do so considering he has his sale complete. 

If eBay were to make the seller refund, they would have forced the seller to accept the return and requested you send the item back first (via a pre-paid label). 

You do not have anything to worry about. eBay took the hit and both seller and buyer 'are whole'. Even if the seller took you to court, as he suffered no financial loss he wouldn't get very far, if at all.