Washing Machine Delay Timer

Scot_39

TheElectricCow said:

MikeJXE said:

JayBax72 said:

To be honest, I'm not really sure why I think it would save money! There is such a lot of information about and alot of it is conflicting. I did see somewhere that using a machine delay at night means it users greener energy. Whilst it may not be cheaper it is cleaner environmentally.

You are correct a lot of it is conflicting and confusing 

How can you determine the difference between clean energy and dirty energy ? You use what is in the cables at the time 

I can't see how anyone can choose the energy that come from a windmill instead of what comes from a gas fired power station it's all mixed together afaik 

That’s exactly how you’d determine the difference between clean and dirty energy, by using what’s in the cables at the times of day when those cables have a higher proportion of clean energy.

During peak hours on a cold winter’s evening the grid may need more energy than can be supplied from the clean sources such as wind turbines, so they have to fire up additional gas power stations etc. to be able to meet this demand. This means the overall mix of electricity in the cable was generated more from fossil fuels than other sources.

During the night there isn’t as much demand for energy so the extra power isn’t needed and those extra generators can be turned down/off. The wind doesn’t just stop blowing at night though so the turbines are still generating electricity cleanly resulting in a much higher proportion of the electricity in the cables being “clean”. 

So you’re right that it’s not quite a case of plugging your specific house into a wind turbine, but rather the “dirty” sources of electricity aren’t needed to be used and so simply aren’t contributing as much to that overall energy mix inside the cables that supply your property.

Really - worrying about the green mix for typically a 1kWh cycle on a washing machine.

Anyone who is concerned about their domestic carbon footprint - who is genuinely interested in green energy sourcing - arguably - if they haven't already done so - be looking to stop burning domestic fossil fuels - gas - mains or LPG, oil, wood etc.  100% emitting greenhouse gases continuously.

As suggested by others - the articles / posts referred to above was probably aimed at someone on E7 / E10 etc style "fixed" TOU, or the fully flexible TOU agile tracker - to save money - nothing to do with green mix at all.

At least electric averages just over 1/3 renewables.  

A few million shifting a 1kWh wash cycle overnight - to on average a 1/3rd green mix (more if include nuclear and biomass - I wouldn't the latter ) really isn't going to scratch the surface of domestic carbon footprint in UK.

Decades ago - as Hunterston was built and came on stream - a pumped hydro station was built at Cruachan - in large part to be its overnight battery - to deliver even higher energy during the day than it's rated power when needed and not to waste it when not.

Grown up thinking - matching generation capacity characteristics to demand. 

Something sadly missing in decades of UK's rush to cheap gas and cheap wind (cheap only as built without adequate storage).  

EssexHebridean

If everyone in the world worried about "typically a 1kWh cycle on a washing machine" then that would be a cracking step towards a greener world, IMO. I'd suggest that it is definitely not something to ridicule someone for considering. 

MultiFuelBurner

EssexHebridean said:

If everyone in the world worried about "typically a 1kWh cycle on a washing machine" then that would be a cracking step towards a greener world, IMO. I'd suggest that it is definitely not something to ridicule someone for considering. 

Completely agree with this, every little can help 👍

Scot_39

To be honest - it may or may not make a small difference on average - as I don't how much greener the generation mix is consistently or on average  - by time of day - e.g. how does it vary summer when demand lower and GW of solar available for longer - vs winter.

For instance - and it's just one example - looking at the two biggest components - the balance of gas and wind generated power "inverted" overnight gas was higher from c530am slot until 10:30am - but gas dropped below wind from about 9pm last night.

Not saying thats tpyical - but arguably

putting on a washing machine / dishwasher or tumble dryer load for an hour or 2 - to empty / finish by breakfast time - at say 730 - 8am - could easily have had a more serious impact in terms on environmental impact - than putting it on late yesterday evening - or just after midnight to save on say E7 rates.

As I say just one day.

It'd probably be better if people simply used their machines more energy efficiently (frequency, fullness, temperature etc) - than perhaps time shifting for exact energy mix.

And if you are then going to time shift - make sure it doesn't annoy the neighbours - as it can - in flats, small terraces etc. the noise really can be a nuisance.  And dont forget fire risks - check those smoke / heat detectors - or fit if don't already have.

Bendo

I'm on Agile but my primary consideration with the washing machine is when I will be able to empty it. Nothing worse than doing a wash and leaving it sat in there when its finished.

Qyburn

Scot_39 said:

To be honest - it may or may not make a small difference on average - as I don't how much greener the generation mix is consistently or on average  - by time of day - e.g. how does it vary summer when demand lower and GW of solar available for longer - vs winter.

No incremental load can be fulfilled from wind, unless there's an actual surplus and wind farms are being told to shut down. Aside from those times wind runs flat out delivering as much as possible, it doesn't (can't) increase just because demand increases.

chrisw

I found the eco wash gives a really good wash but takes nearly 3 1/2 hours. So I set the delay timer at night so that the washing finishes at 9am and I can hang it straight out without it sitting in the washer too long.

MultiFuelBurner

There are greener days to do things and Octopus have made that data easier to find (used to be emailed only)

https://octopus.energy/smart/greener-days/

Strummer22

MultiFuelBurner said:

There are greener days to do things and Octopus have made that data easier to find (used to be emailed only)

https://octopus.energy/smart/greener-days/

That page is confusing, it's not entirely clear whether it's based just on forecasted overnight (23:00 - 07:00) wind power or all day? It also appears to ignore solar which can contribute up to 10 GW metered generation and plenty more unmetered microgeneration + demand reduction on sunny spring and summer days.

As a general rule of thumb, if it's windy and/or sunny the mix is probably quite green, and if it's cloudy and still (and even more so if it's cold) it's dirty. 

You can take a look at the current situation yourselves here: https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/live

Final point, make the most of using electricity overnight if you can, it helps balance the grid to shift demand away from peak times. On very windy nights power from wind turbines is almost certainly curtailed. This means that we don't generate as much power from wind as we could, because the demand isn't there. You will see on these occasions there's probably still ~3 GW gas generation. We can't just turn off the gas because the wind turbines don't provide any inertia; this is literal drag on the system from (steam) turbines which keeps the grid frequency about right. See https://www.nationalgrideso.com/electricity-explained/how-do-we-balance-grid/what-inertia. To address this some enormous motors (synchronous condensers - effectively flywheels) are being connected to the grid. They do nothing except spin and transfer inertia to and from the grid, as required.

bob2302

chrisw said:

I found the eco wash gives a really good wash but takes nearly 3 1/2 hours. So I set the delay timer at night so that the washing finishes at 9am and I can hang it straight out without it sitting in the washer too long.

 Mine displays 3:35 when it starts-up, but it actually takes an hour less. The  initial figure is just a pessimistic estimate.

 If you have the time, I suggest using a delayed spin as well.