Gladstone response to letter before action dispute received following UK CPM invoice from Jan 2023

deadnotstupid

Hi all, 

I'm setting this thread up ahead of I what hope won’t happen and the decision to take this further. 

Last January I visited friends and parked in the private gated residential car park for their building. I was parked in a visitors bay, stayed less than the allowed time and had a visitors permit that I placed on the dash when leaving the car. 

When I returned to the car the permit was in the footwell. 

A few weeks later I received the invoice from UKCPM and fruitlessly appealed with them and IAC providing evidence of the permit, sadly not in place on the dash but in hand. I tried pointing out (knowing it would go nowhere) that the only way to guarantee that a permit remained visible would be to sit in my car with it for the 36 hours of my stay lest some passing bird defecate on the windscreen and obscure the permit from view. I had obeyed all terms as far as could be reasonably and humanly achieved. 

Debt collection Plus letters came for a bit but went quiet last summer. Today I had the letter before action from Gladstones Limited. I’ve replied on their form disputing the charge, that there was no breach of contract. The form on the website didn’t seem to give much space to put much information. Had I checked here first I might have tried to copy out the longer paragraphs given in the template and slung a full response into the form. 

Basically I’m waiting to see what happens next and to try and see what I can put together ahead of time just in case. 

Any ongoing advice and support is appreciated.

Coupon-mad

Can the friends try an email asking the MA to cancel it because it has annoyed them and you and is an 'outrageous scam' (MPs'
words) operating in their home car park that they didn't invite or want harassing them or their visitors?

I know someone working for a Housing Association in the Worthing area, who often tells UKCPM to cancel PCNs.  It's normal to the HA.  She actually thinks that UKCPM are OK because they wheedle their way into her good books; they don't treat their unsuspecting clients with the utter contempt that ex-wheelclampers treat residents. 

deadnotstupid

That was the first port of call back last January but the person in charge for the residential site and outsourcing to UKCPM gave exactly zero !!!!!!. 

My friends have since moved out of the building and out of the country so can’t really revisit. 

Coupon-mad

Shame the friend wasn't the driver. Untouchable abroad.

Never mind, just win if they try a court claim, as we do here every week.

deadnotstupid

Okay - so I have received an email today from Gladstones ‘solicitors’ following my having disbuted the claim on 21st of January. Funnily they only give me 28 days to get back to them having taken twice that to respond to my disbute. Dicks. 

So recap of facts to pull together my response:
-I was visiting friends who live in a flat with a car park
-The car park is gated and accessible only with a code or being buzzed in by a resident. It is this only possible to be used by residents or visitors heir visitors.
-I was correctly parked in a visitor bay and for less than the maximum time.
-My friends had a visitor pass, which I had access to, placed on the dash, but when I returned it was in the footwell. 

-I have shown evidence of this visitors pass to the compan(ies) in the appeals processes that were not successful. 

-Looking on google maps (because I’m not driving a 12 hour round trip for a photo op) there’s no sign at the entrance because entering the gate that it is private land and that by entering you are entering into a contract. 

-Friends have since moved away from this property and indeed moved out of the country.

Wording of email received today:
Good Afternoon,

Thank you for your correspondence relating to the unpaid parking charge(s). It’s taken us some time to obtain the evidence in this matter in order to provide it to you so please accept our apologies for any delay in responding.

The photographs and copy letters are now provided herewith in PDF format, if you are unable to open the attachment for any reason, it can be viewed by clicking this link.

Please review the attachments and respond accordingly. In view of the fact that it’s taken some time for us to respond to you, as a courtesy, we have put your file on hold for 28 days from the date of this email to allow you to review the evidence in the case and provide any further representations on the same.

Please note that at this point, we are still instructed to proceed with your case and issue proceedings in the absence of full payment being made within 28 days of this email.

To bring this matter to a close, please make payment by clicking here, or call our contact team on 01565 755088. [links removed for obvious reasons] 

So what to do going forward? 

-I’m tempted to go back and ask for evidence that they either are the landowner or have the standing to be creating and collecting in these matter on their behalf.
-also pointing out the lack of breadcrumbs sign at the entrance to the car park being against the code of conduct.
-ask for demonstrations of the actual loss or incurred by the landowner in this case to have started this process

anything else you would recommend at this point? 

Coupon-mad

Have you sent the LBC response in the NEWBIES thread asking specific questions about VAT on the DRA fee?

deadnotstupid

I am sending it this weekend but with some additions/alterations:

Dear Sirs,

Your Ref. ##############
Proposed Legal Proceedings
Claimant: UK CPM Ltd

I refer to your your letter of claim.

The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such, I formally request that this matter be put on hold for an additional 30 days, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').

I note that the amount being claimed has increased by a hugely exaggerated amount which the UK Government has called "extorting money from motorists”.

This extortion is further evidenced by the nature of the dispute. The nature of this dispute remains that this is private car park for residents and their guests who are invited. The car park is gated and has an access code and buzzer system and as such only residents and their guests can gain access. I have evidenced that that the vehicle was there at the permission of a specific named residents at the time, and had a paid visitor permit from those residents at the time. 

This "extorting of money from motorists", both private residents and their guests to their property, shows the companies carrying out these durties are doing so as a way to line their own pockets rather than fulfil the purpose of their role to protect the interests of the owner residents in their own property and by the terms of their leases for renters. Continuing this harassment of me is an admission that your clients have zero intention of considering the purpose of the car parking and their invited role on behalf of the landowners, and instead seek only to make money extorted from those same landowners, leaseholders, and their guests at the expense of the selfsame purpose and role with the duties they contain.

Don't send me your usual boilerplate about ‘extortion’ or increased amounts being claimed. I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:

1. Am I to understand that the additional money represents what you lot dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this NET or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

Yours faithfully,

deadnotstupid

I've finally received a response from Gladstone's (only 2months after my letter.... funny how they don't keep to the same timelines they expect of us), and they didn't actually answer any of the questions asked in the letter. Does this mean anything under the PAP if they have failed to provide answers? 

Coupon-mad

Did they reply to the VAT concern raised?

deadnotstupid

Not mentioned at all:

Good Afternoon,

We acknowledge receipt of your recent correspondence, and apologise for the delay. The contents of which have been noted and our response below.  

We write regarding the outstanding parking charge you hold on our files. 

By way of background, this matter relates to an unpaid Parking Charge Notice ("PCN") issued by our Client to the vehicle with registration **** ***. 

The PCN was issued at our Clients site as you failed to display a permit.

Payment of the charge was not forthcoming within the relevant time frame and as such the contract between yourself and our Client was breached.    Further costs have since been incurred as a direct result of the breach in facilitating recovery of the outstanding debt.    As the charge remained unpaid, our Firm were instructed to seek recovery and £70.00 has been added as mentioned in the Formal Demand.The charge sought is an industry standard and is set at a rate so as to suitably satisfy our Client's legitimate interest.In respect of your position concerning harassment, this is denied on the basis that both Gladstones Solicitors and our Client are taking reasonable steps to understand your position as is required of both parties under the pre-action protocol. Our Client has also taken reasonable steps to recover the debt and those steps cannot be deemed as harassment.With that being said, our Client remains satisfied that the charge was issued correctly and £170.00 remains outstanding.You can make payment via the following methods: Online Visit www.gladstonessolicitors.co.ukOver the PhoneCall 0333 0230 049 Via Bank TransferName: Gladstones Solicitors Limited Account Number: 33028712 Sort Code: 20-24-09 You must include your reference ******.***** when making payment.  If you fail to do so, we may be unable to allocate your payment. This may result in further costs being incurred, for which you will be liable. In the absence of payment by 12/06/2024, our Client may elect to issue proceedings without further notice.Should it become necessary to issue legal proceedings, we suggest you follow the steps on the claim form upon receipt of the same.  It is at this juncture we remind you of your right to access legal advice if you are unsure of the process. Kind Regards,

Coupon-mad

Reply and re-state your questions and remind them of their duty under the PAP to properly respond to issues raised at pre-action stage.