UKPC Crawley Leisure Park - Left site - Too late to appeal

fivestarsamz

Hello again! I am here with another one for a friend. This time, with a popular "left the site" PCN. 

Here is the NtK 'Final reminder' received. The keeper did not receive anything before this letter so they did not know about this PCN prior to this. So i don't know if the first NtoK is POFA complaint. I also noticed the date of the parking charge is 27/11/2023 and the date of the letter is 13/12/2023 which is only 16 days after. Is this normal? To have a final reminder sent less than 28 days of parking charge?






Why wasn't this addressed sooner? Honestly, my friend told me about it and right now I am going through a really busy period that I kinda just forgot and she reminded me again. I feel bad because now I missed the appeal period and the ability to get the POPLA code.
I want to just squash it sooner rather than later, and not go through a lengthy route. Mainly because I just see myself getting busier in the near future and will be going abroad for a couple of months so I won't be able to help my friend as much and fear that I might miss a deadline again if it goes through county court.
THEREFORE, I am thinking of writing an email to UKPC (if I can find their email) and offering to settle for a small fee of £10. 

My draft of the email is below. What do you guys think?

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am sending an email regarding the PCN that you have issued. The reference number is: XXXXXXX

registration number of the vehicle: XXXXXXXX.

1. Firstly, I want to make clear that I am the registered keeper who received the letter. I am NOT the driver.
2. I would also like to point out that I only received the letter dated 13/12/2023 titled as ‘FINAL REMINDER’ as the first notification of the PCN with no prior notification or correspondence. This was also received at least a week after the date. This means that I did not receive the first Notice to Keeper, thus not having a chance on the “14-day early pay discount” of £40.
3. We both know the reason stated for issuing the PCN is bogus and will not stand in court. It is your duty, as a claimant, to provide evidence when you make a claim.
4. Please provide evidence that the driver of the vehicle left the site, and therefore breached the terms. 

As specified in:

Schedule four; Protection of Freedoms Act 2012: paragraph 8; sub-paragraph 7:

'When the notice is given it must be accompanied by any evidence prescribed under paragraph 10'

 5. There are no site boundaries defined. There is no clear definition on your terms and conditions as to what constitutes leaving ‘the site’. Please provide evidence that this was done which should include a site map and a picture of the signage that would have communicated to the driver the defined boundary of the site they are alleged to have left.  
6. You must also explain why your attendant presumably:

a. Watched a driver or occupant walk towards the edge of an undefined boundary.

b. Did not attempt to stop/warn the driver nor even ascertain if a passenger had already been dropped at the door of the premises.

 

The attendant had a legal duty under contract law, to mitigate any loss. In VCS v Ibbotson, Case No 1SE09849 16.5.2012 District Judge McIlwaine stated:

“you say he left the premises...where does the premises start and where does the premises finish?...there is a duty to mitigate the loss.”

7. No photo evidence of the vehicle in contravention of terms

The BPA Code of Practice point 20.5a stipulates that: "When issuing a parking charge notice you may use photographs as evidence that a vehicle was parked in an unauthorised way. The photographs must refer to and confirm the incident which you claim was unauthorised. A date and time stamp should be included on the photograph. All photographs used for evidence should be clear and legible and must not be retouched or digitally altered."

The evidence provided clearly shows the vehicle present in the car park; however, they do not present any evidence that the vehicle was parked in an unauthorised way as required in the BPA Code of Practice.

 ---------

Without prejudice, I am willing to make an offer of £10 to close this matter. This is more than you will get if we go down the route of taking it to court, and only if you win, which we know will not happen.

 

Please send the evidence requested, or an acceptance of the offer, within 7 days of receiving this correspondence. Otherwise, I will consider this matter closed.

 

Regards,

Keeper of XXXX XXX

NAME OF KEEPER

fivestarsamz

Here is all the evidence under the parking reference just for your reference:

Umkomaas

If those are the only photos UKPC have (check their website), none of them shows any evidence of anyone leaving the car park. Write to UKPC and ask them to provide you with evidence to support their accusation. Remind them that photos of a parked car prove nothing in regard to that. 

fisherjim

You have a speculative invoice from chancers, why on earth do you think they will accept an offer of £10 when their tactics are to try to coerce as much out of unsuspecting victims as they can.

The leaving site scam is an add on UKPC have been trying on for years.

They won't have any evidence of anyone leaving site, Umko is quite correct.

To our knowledge only one PPC tried this line of attack in court (affectionately known on here as "the toothbrush case") and the judge basically threatened the in house legal rep that if they brought the same issue to her court again they should bring a toothbrush!

If you want a chuckle search for VCS v Ibbotson and don't give in to greedy chancers.

Coupon-mad

Your friend won't be paying a penny, even if they issue a court claim.  No worries!

fivestarsamz

Umkomaas said:

If those are the only photos UKPC have (check their website), none of them shows any evidence of anyone leaving the car park. Write to UKPC and ask them to provide you with evidence to support their accusation. Remind them that photos of a parked car prove nothing in regard to that. 

Yes that is my plan. I wrote a draft email in the original post to send to them, asking for evidence. I will do that. Was wondering if that email is fine to send. 

fisherjim said:

You have a speculative invoice from chancers, why on earth do you think they will accept an offer of £10 when their tactics are to try to coerce as much out of unsuspecting victims as they can.

My thinking is that, if i make them aware that I know how to fight this, and I am willing to take it all the way to the court, knowing full well that I know I will win. To save them the cost of court, and to save me hassle of going through the defence, I will just offer them £10 or £20 to just close it here and now. 

Coupon-mad said:

Your friend won't be paying a penny, even if they issue a court claim.  No worries!

I am not worried about losing to them in court. I am more worried about going through the hassle of making a defense, and forgetting deadlines when I have a busy few months coming up. Hence why I am asking if it is worth settling it by offering £10. 

Coupon-mad

To save them the cost of court, and to save me hassle of going through the defence, I will just offer them £10 or £20 to just close it here and now. 

If that idea had legs, it would be stated in the NEWBIES thread.  It doesn't.  We've been doing this well over a decade.  Seen it all.

No harm caused by trying but you are wasting your time, IMHO.

Umkomaas

To save them the cost of court, and to save me hassle of going through the defence, I will just offer them £10 or £20 to just close it here and now. 

That might be viewed as a tacit admission of some liability. Don't go there. 

Half_way

Umkomaas said:

To save them the cost of court, and to save me hassle of going through the defence, I will just offer them £10 or £20 to just close it here and now. 

That might be viewed as a tacit admission of some liability. Don't go there. 

As above, it wont close it, they will want all of the money and more, do not be fooled into thinking that you are dealing with a reasonable industry

fivestarsamz

Noted. Thank you. I will be refraining from settling at £20.

Also, my friend found the original PCN NtK sent. Does it comply with POFA 2012?

fivestarsamz

Here is the updated email I plan to send to UKPC if i find their email. Any feedback?

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am sending an email regarding the PCN that you have issued. The reference number is: XXXXXXX

registration number of the vehicle: XXXXXXXX.

1. Firstly, I want to make clear that I am the registered keeper who received the letter. I am NOT the driver.
2. We both know the reason stated for issuing the PCN is bogus and will not stand in court. It is your duty, as a claimant, to provide evidence when you make a claim.
3. Please provide evidence that the driver of the vehicle left the site, and therefore breached the terms. Photos of a parked car do not prove the driver left the site.  

As specified in:

Schedule four; Protection of Freedoms Act 2012: paragraph 8; sub-paragraph 7:

'When the notice is given it must be accompanied by any evidence prescribed under paragraph 10'

 4. There are no site boundaries defined. There is no clear definition on your terms and conditions as to what constitutes leaving ‘the site’. Please provide evidence that this was done which should include a site map and a picture of the signage that would have communicated to the driver the defined boundary of the site they are alleged to have left.  
5. You must also explain why your attendant presumably:

a. Watched a driver or occupant walk towards the edge of an undefined boundary.

b. Did not attempt to stop/warn the driver nor even ascertain if a passenger had already been dropped at the door of the premises.

The attendant had a legal duty under contract law, to mitigate any loss. In VCS v Ibbotson, Case No 1SE09849 16.5.2012 District Judge McIlwaine stated:

“you say he left the premises...where does the premises start and where does the premises finish?...there is a duty to mitigate the loss.”

6. No photo evidence of the vehicle in contravention of terms

The BPA Code of Practice point 20.5a stipulates that: "When issuing a parking charge notice you may use photographs as evidence that a vehicle was parked in an unauthorised way. The photographs must refer to and confirm the incident which you claim was unauthorised. A date and time stamp should be included on the photograph. All photographs used for evidence should be clear and legible and must not be retouched or digitally altered."

The evidence provided clearly shows the vehicle present in the car park; however, they do not present any evidence that the vehicle was parked in an unauthorised way as required in the BPA Code of Practice.

Please send the evidence requested within 14 days of receiving this correspondence. Otherwise, I will consider this matter closed.

Also, you do not have permission to share my details with any third parties or other companies. 

 Regards,

Keeper of XXXX XXX

NAME OF KEEPER