Failure to provide service to business - how do we proceed?

born_again

Cmdr_Bond said:

BoGoF said:

Cmdr_Bond said:

PHK said:

That's why, when a technical advisor asks you to do something you do.

Indeed, but when it comes to taking apart a wall socket with a screwdriver, where does the liability lay if a non technical person, following instructions relayed down the phone by someone who doesn't know the physical layout and can't see it, opens the wrong socket and causes damage in the process?

Plugging and unplugging is one thing, taking a socket apart is another.  IMO.

HOWEVER. If it is meant to be user accessible, then I do understand the point.

You are not taking apart a socket, you are removing a cover plate and plugging into the master socket. Even as an individual customer of BT I have been asked to do this, 30 second job. 

I understand your point.

I've not had a BT supplied line in over 20 years (C&W, NTL, Virgin), and I've not needed to remove a cover plate for them, ever.  I'm not saying this isn't something I wouldn't have been expected to do, and I would've been happy to as I'm technically minded.

I wasn't present when this conversation took place, so I only have half the story.  I personally think it could've been handled better, but I think it could've also been explained better to (A).  However, at this point, his business had been without internet or phone for over 6 weeks!

I understand the point you make that this may be seen as an issue with regards to being uncooperative, but in the grand scheme of things (i.e. lack of written contracts and a product that I believe, but cannot prove, was mis-sold, and the fact he was without services for an extended period of time) I believe this is a minor issue.

I could be wrong however.

No offence, Perhaps rather than everyone trying to 2nd guess what is going on.

Please get the full story & more accurate advice would be given 👍


C&W, NTL & Virgin were/are all cable companies & use different face plates for phone connections. BT face plates have a lower half that removing 2 screws allows a direct connection to the incoming twisted pair & rules out any internal issues.

Cmdr_Bond

@born_again   No offense, but I can only give you the information i have.

Jumblebumble

Grumpy_chap said:

Cmdr_Bond said:

Thank you, it was late when I writing this.

Yes, that last paragraph should read I have instructed (A), not (D).  My apologies.

I have company names for B C and D, but wanted to keep everything vague for the time being so as not to prejudice any legal action.

Who does (A) have a contract with?  That's a very good question.

He agreed everything with (B), and (C) is supplying 2 of his sites.  The 3rd was supplied (matter of debate) by (D), and it is, to my knowledge, (C) and (D) that are directly billing him.

But apart from an email agreement with the broker (B), he has no written contracts - nothing has been emailed or posted!

The real trouble with being vague is that it makes things very difficult to follow.

How large is the business?  The business has three operating sites, so that implies a large organisation that has equal bargaining power with the telecoms / internet service providers and access to legal advice.  The friend A should be using that internal legal advice to obtain accurate comment rather than uninformed comment from internet strangers.

Unless, of course, that is the wrong end of the stick caused by the extreme efforts to be vague.  Is it actually that the three sites are, in fact A's house plus A's sister's house plus A's son's house?

Do you see why "vague" does not help?

I also find it unfathomable that two separate telecoms providers would provide a business service without there being a signed contract in place.  That may not be physically signed, but possibly via a service such as docu-sign and then the electronically signed records are available via an online account portal (presumable one for C and one for D).

The next step is to get clarity and sight of the contracts and then for these to be fully reviewed as to the obligations and liabilities of both parties (to each contract) with regard to cancellation and non-performance.

Why is the broker not assisting?  I assume they charged a fee somehow for their service.

I have often found that when terms and conditions are posted verbatim a quick google of some text in parentheses  quickly reveals whose terms they are.

BoGoF

Cmdr_Bond said:

@born_again   No offense, but I can only give you the information i have.

Half a story helps nobody though and nobody can give advice with half the facts.

Cmdr_Bond

BoGoF said:

Cmdr_Bond said:

@born_again   No offense, but I can only give you the information i have.

Half a story helps nobody though and nobody can give advice with half the facts.

So how exactly am I supposed to get any help.  I've got all the details I can from my friend, but I wasn't present for the conversation with their technical team, so I don't know the exact phrasology used.

Pardon me for trying to help someone!

user1977

Cmdr_Bond said:

BoGoF said:

Cmdr_Bond said:

@born_again   No offense, but I can only give you the information i have.

Half a story helps nobody though and nobody can give advice with half the facts.

So how exactly am I supposed to get any help.  I've got all the details I can from my friend, but I wasn't present for the conversation with their technical team, so I don't know the exact phrasology used.

Pardon me for trying to help someone!

Maybe just get your friend to post here themselves (assuming they actually want our advice) rather than us playing Chinese whispers.

born_again

Cmdr_Bond said:

BoGoF said:

Cmdr_Bond said:

@born_again   No offense, but I can only give you the information i have.

Half a story helps nobody though and nobody can give advice with half the facts.

So how exactly am I supposed to get any help.  I've got all the details I can from my friend, but I wasn't present for the conversation with their technical team, so I don't know the exact phrasology used.

Pardon me for trying to help someone!

Perhaps the best way is for your friend to post exactly what has happened with your assistance given English not being their 1st language.
While it is great you are trying to help, you are floundering in the dark as much as anyone else here trying to help 👍

What is it that your friends want out of this?
Just sorting out the issue, so they have a working connection?
Getting out of the contract?  - If this then,  I'm afraid it is not a consumer issue & might need a legal view point on the issue.

As you are a friend of them, perhaps the best advice you can give going forward. Would be to advise them that if any broker or cold caller rings up. That they say good by & they are happy where they are. 👍

Jonboy_1984

Do D still have a live albeit poor connection?

If so then I would start by taking off the faceplate and seeing if the master socket provides a better connection.

If it doesn’t then take legal advice over the termination charges being unfair.

If it does then they need to find a local telephone engineer to troubleshoot their internal network.

Cmdr_Bond

Jonboy_1984 said:

Do D still have a live albeit poor connection?

If so then I would start by taking off the faceplate and seeing if the master socket provides a better connection.

If it doesn’t then take legal advice over the termination charges being unfair.

If it does then they need to find a local telephone engineer to troubleshoot their internal network.

To my knowledge, no, (D)'s connection is no longer live as (A) has set up with a new provider, without the Broker's assistance.  This is on fibre not copper.

Cmdr_Bond

born_again said:

Cmdr_Bond said:

BoGoF said:

Cmdr_Bond said:

@born_again   No offense, but I can only give you the information i have.

Half a story helps nobody though and nobody can give advice with half the facts.

So how exactly am I supposed to get any help.  I've got all the details I can from my friend, but I wasn't present for the conversation with their technical team, so I don't know the exact phrasology used.

Pardon me for trying to help someone!

Perhaps the best way is for your friend to post exactly what has happened with your assistance given English not being their 1st language.
While it is great you are trying to help, you are floundering in the dark as much as anyone else here trying to help 👍

What is it that your friends want out of this?
Just sorting out the issue, so they have a working connection?
Getting out of the contract?  - If this then,  I'm afraid it is not a consumer issue & might need a legal view point on the issue.

As you are a friend of them, perhaps the best advice you can give going forward. Would be to advise them that if any broker or cold caller rings up. That they say good by & they are happy where they are. 👍

Primarily they don't want to pay the extortionate early cancellation fee.  If it had been £50, they probably would've swallowed it.

But I think they also want to try for compensation due to the impact this had on their business.

And yes, I'm pushing them towards proper legal council, but I'm trying to make it was easy as possible then to get up to speed as it's such a mess.

The cancellation fee is probably the easier one on which they will achieve a successful outcome.

Compensation is a much trickier area.

Primarily they don't want to pay more, or have it go to collections.

Anything else is probably a bonus.