No heat to back boiler pipes

ThisIsWeird

Lil, if it's the same pump, what on earth did this plumber charge £300 for?
And, he didn't replace the pump correctly, according to the manufacturer's instructions.
So, your call what to do about that, and the fact your mum has no heating, but I'd have thought a gentle request for a sizeable discount would be in order, before you post some honest reviews.
How old is your mum? And she's on her own? Hmmm, this ain't looking good for the guy...
Or, you give the guy a chance to restore the system to its previous functioning order.

ThisIsWeird

Lil306 said:

Just to answer all questions. Bit slow on phone

House insurance. I have none. Mam probably. 

Engineer. I'll be doing my own research. She was in a panic to get it sorted so Google voice searched for an engineer so rang the first 5 star recommended one. I'd rather check and vetted for solid fuel ones as I'm more tech savvy. I'm more inclined to fix myself. I work on the basis of what's changed since it was touched and the angle of the pump was the first thing I noticed

Pump. The spot where it leaked was from the valve side (neatest the fire) at the big brass nut. When it was removed. There was lock off valves with screwdriver and to the right so could change without draining. The seal was damaged. It basically had a broke  seal that  needed replacing. The pump was reinstalled at orginal orientation as when it was working (except the angle) 

The pump wasn't installed by the engineer. Just reinstalled after the repair. He didn't understand and had to ring his boss as he wanted to drain the system with the fire lit and his boss said that he couldn't turn the pump off with the fire lit. Or rather drain the system as the fire had to be off. 

The pump my mam had fitted was a replacement of the original. Original was probably about 15 years old . This pump has been installed this way for at least 6 or 7 years prior to the seal failing on it. 

Gate valves.  They bother me more because there doesn't appear to he any shut off  I fully turned them left anyway just on the off chance one of them was closes. I text my mam about 15 mins ago and she says the pipes in the cabinet are warm/hot but there's no heat to the pipes going upstairs. 

My first thought is the pump or the isolation valve to the left of it hasn't been opened properly. When he reinstalled the pump this was leaking slightly and he adjusted it and it stopped. As a note the valve looks like _ rather than | orientation so my assumption is that the gate is open

At the moment I'm working on the basis of a of valve or pumps installation. I tried finding a manual (Grundfos TF110C Class F) if anyone can find one to read about installation angle as that was the first thing that came to mind when I looked at it

It's admirable/borderline scary that you wish to sort this yourself, or at least understand what's going on, but I suspect that this system is more complex than most.
A wee point about gate valves in general - yes, anti-clock is 'open'. They should turn quite freely, and then 'clunk' to a firm stop when fully open (or closed). When you fully open them, close them again a good half-turn; this will have no effect on how 'open' they are, but will help greatly on preventing them from seizing in the fully-open position.
Yes, the LH valve on the pump is almost certainly open - the convention is that the screwdriver slot is in line with the pipe/flow when open.
Now....the rest of this system! May I suggest you get a nice big sheet of paper, and start sketching? Draw the boiler, the hot cylinder, the pump, the tanks in the loft, and the pipes heading off to the radiators. Then draw in the pipes that join them. Add the valves. 
Only if you do this will you understand the type of system you have.
Also, what controls are there? How does your mum turn on the CH? How does she get a hot tank of water? What happens if she lights a fire, but doesn't turn on the CH? Just how hot does her DHW become? Does she hear gurgling? Banging? Sizzling? :-)

Lil306

ThisIsWeird said:

Lil306 said:

Just to answer all questions. Bit slow on phone

House insurance. I have none. Mam probably. 

Engineer. I'll be doing my own research. She was in a panic to get it sorted so Google voice searched for an engineer so rang the first 5 star recommended one. I'd rather check and vetted for solid fuel ones as I'm more tech savvy. I'm more inclined to fix myself. I work on the basis of what's changed since it was touched and the angle of the pump was the first thing I noticed

Pump. The spot where it leaked was from the valve side (neatest the fire) at the big brass nut. When it was removed. There was lock off valves with screwdriver and to the right so could change without draining. The seal was damaged. It basically had a broke  seal that  needed replacing. The pump was reinstalled at orginal orientation as when it was working (except the angle) 

The pump wasn't installed by the engineer. Just reinstalled after the repair. He didn't understand and had to ring his boss as he wanted to drain the system with the fire lit and his boss said that he couldn't turn the pump off with the fire lit. Or rather drain the system as the fire had to be off. 

The pump my mam had fitted was a replacement of the original. Original was probably about 15 years old . This pump has been installed this way for at least 6 or 7 years prior to the seal failing on it. 

Gate valves.  They bother me more because there doesn't appear to he any shut off  I fully turned them left anyway just on the off chance one of them was closes. I text my mam about 15 mins ago and she says the pipes in the cabinet are warm/hot but there's no heat to the pipes going upstairs. 

My first thought is the pump or the isolation valve to the left of it hasn't been opened properly. When he reinstalled the pump this was leaking slightly and he adjusted it and it stopped. As a note the valve looks like _ rather than | orientation so my assumption is that the gate is open

At the moment I'm working on the basis of a of valve or pumps installation. I tried finding a manual (Grundfos TF110C Class F) if anyone can find one to read about installation angle as that was the first thing that came to mind when I looked at it

It's admirable/borderline scary that you wish to sort this yourself, or at least understand what's going on, but I suspect that this system is more complex than most.
A wee point about gate valves in general - yes, anti-clock is 'open'. They should turn quite freely, and then 'clunk' to a firm stop when fully open (or closed). When you fully open them, close them again a good half-turn; this will have no effect on how 'open' they are, but will help greatly on preventing them from seizing in the fully-open position.
Yes, the LH valve on the pump is almost certainly open - the convention is that the screwdriver slot is in line with the pipe/flow when open.
Now....the rest of this system! May I suggest you get a nice big sheet of paper, and start sketching? Draw the boiler, the hot cylinder, the pump, the tanks in the loft, and the pipes heading off to the radiators. Then draw in the pipes that join them. Add the valves. 
Only if you do this will you understand the type of system you have.
Also, what controls are there? How does your mum turn on the CH? How does she get a hot tank of water? What happens if she lights a fire, but doesn't turn on the CH? Just how hot does her DHW become? Does she hear gurgling? Banging? Sizzling? :-)

Central heating is done via the pump

Basically the way the system works is the fire heats up the water going to the tank . If you want to hear the radiators you turn on the pump

I'll sketch more when I get home
 Tbc.  At work atm

I'm looking at hiring in a plumber to sort mainly cos if I'm going the legal route I want a professional to look at it

Tbh I don't want the person  who came out anywhere near it my mother is 73 years old I live with her. I've told her tonsleep at partners so she has some heating as she was freezing this morning

ThisIsWeird

Ok, sounds like 'gravity' DHW, and pumped CH.
An old system, and needs someone who understands it.
Phew - so you ain't personally sorting it!

ThisIsWeird

Does the pump actually run when told to? It should be feelable If you touch the body, accompanied by a gentle hum. 
Or, feel the pipes either side of the pump when on - should be similar temps.

greyteam1959

Maybe go onto the Parkray website & see who they recommend in your area ?
The heating engineer must know what they are doing or you could have an exploding back boiler!!

Lil306

ThisIsWeird said:

Lil, if it's the same pump, what on earth did this plumber charge £300 for?
And, he didn't replace the pump correctly, according to the manufacturer's instructions.
So, your call what to do about that, and the fact your mum has no heating, but I'd have thought a gentle request for a sizeable discount would be in order, before you post some honest reviews.
How old is your mum? And she's on her own? Hmmm, this ain't looking good for the guy...
Or, you give the guy a chance to restore the system to its previous functioning order.

With regards to the charge. The engineer came on an emergency call out (£180) due to the pump leaking. They then spent about 30 mins around the house trying to drain the system trying to loosen the pump etc as They were unsure. When it came to the final bill they said to my mam it was a 1.5 he charge because they had been here longer than an hour ( was about 1hr 5 or 1hr 10 in reality) . I believe the person was a plumber but trained on more traditional pumps like boilers as they didn't have a clue that a back boiler can explode. My mam was on phone to fire brigade about potentially coming out to remove the coals as he was trying to drain the system with the fire running

Lil306

greyteam1959 said:

Maybe go onto the Parkray website & see who they recommend in your area ?
The heating engineer must know what they are doing or you could have an exploding back boiler!!

I think that was more down to my mother warning them and they were in the phone to their boss who wanted them they couldn't stop the pump to drain the system as the fire had to be ofdlf

Lil306

ThisIsWeird said:

Ok, sounds like 'gravity' DHW, and pumped CH.
An old system, and needs someone who understands it.
Phew - so you ain't personally sorting it!

Yes sorry. Gravity fed. Not sure what DHW means without looking 

There's a tank in the loft. The hot water goes to it used for the bath and taps. And then if you want radiators you use the pullers to add heat not he back boiler and turn on the pump to cycle around the radiators.

I'm more than happy to do things myself. I'm starting to think it's an air lock of some sort (pipes hot in cupboard but their freezing cold going to the tank) but an engineer has the right tools end of the day safer  

ThisIsWeird

Lil306 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Ok, sounds like 'gravity' DHW, and pumped CH.
An old system, and needs someone who understands it.
Phew - so you ain't personally sorting it!

Yes sorry. Gravity fed. Not sure what DHW means without looking 

There's a tank in the loft. The hot water goes to it used for the bath and taps. And then if you want radiators you use the pullers to add heat not he back boiler and turn on the pump to cycle around the radiators.

I'm more than happy to do things myself. I'm starting to think it's an air lock of some sort (pipes hot in cupboard but their freezing cold going to the tank) but an engineer has the right tools end of the day safer  

Domestic Hot Water - like your hot cylinder.
This is heated by the back boiler, and doesn't require a pump - the water circulates under 'gravity' ( hot water being less dense, so lighter, so floats upwards).
"If you want rads you use the 'pullers'..." What's a puller?