My parking appeal

RNapper

Hi all.

I've read the Newbies thread and think that I'm following guidance here by using the standard template (plus an added paragraph about the NTK being outside the 14 days) and then I'm sharing here to check people think it's OK.

If that contravenes any forum etiquette please accept my apologies - I think this is the correct process?

Many thanks for any help or advice.

PCN is postal only.

My appeal text:

Re PCN number: 

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

I also wish to notify you of your failure to deliver the Notice to Keeper within the required 14 day period as it arrived on 05/01/24 some 16 days after the alleged incident.

Etccarmageddon

Any more info you want to share? eg which parking company sent you the NTK?  

RNapper

Sorry, also should have said that I was considering putting in a line about the fact that the images on the PCN (letterbox shots of the car's number plate) are not time stamped.

Is this a good idea?

RNapper

Etccarmageddon said:

Any more info you want to share? eg which parking company sent you the NTK?  

Hi - apologies, should have done that!

It's euro car parks

Etccarmageddon

Yes i would pick apart every detail, no date and time stamp, blurred and not clear in the images as to where they were taken assuming it's just photos of your car 

RNapper

That's good to know - thanks

RNapper

Etccarmageddon said:

Yes i would pick apart every detail, no date and time stamp, blurred and not clear in the images as to where they were taken assuming it's just photos of your car 

Not even photos of the car to be honest - just 2 letterbox images of the number plate 

RNapper

Sorry, one last question - is there any value in disputing the proportionality of the charge?

The car park is a free one and the allegation is that the car was parked there longer than permitted.

As there is no fee for parking there, demanding £100 seems disproportionate but I don't know if this is an argument that anyone has ever had success with?

Fruitcake

RNapper said:

Sorry, one last question - is there any value in disputing the proportionality of the charge?

The car park is a free one and the allegation is that the car was parked there longer than permitted.

As there is no fee for parking there, demanding £100 seems disproportionate but I don't know if this is an argument that anyone has ever had success with?

No. That went out in 2015 with the infamous Beavis case in the Supreme Court.

Plan A is always a complaint from the keeper to the landowner and the keeper's MP, without revealing the driver's identity. Have you done this yet?

For the initial appeal to a BPA member, be very careful about adding stuff to the template. The bit about the NTK being non-PoFA compliant and arriving too late to hold a keeper liable is fine, but the more you add, the more likely you are to slip up and blab about the driver's identity.
Personally I wouldn't add the other stuff but instead save it for PoPLA. 
Most of the regulars don't like templates, but it was created to stop people throwing away winning points by not revealing the driver's identity, and in the case of BPA members, to get a PoPLA code. It is not designed to get a PCN cancelled except with a few specific PPCs.

Before you send your appeal, please tell us the date of the alleged event, and the issue date of the NTK. It is the latter that matters, not when it actually arrived, which is extremely difficult to prove.

RNapper

Thanks for the advice.

I tried complaining to what I thought was the landowner (Aldi) but only got repeated responses of, "as we do not manage the car park, you will need to appeal directly to euro car parks".

Looking at the title on gov website, it's not very clear who the actual car park belongs to (it's behind the Aldi but there are other shops nearby).

I haven't tried going dow the route of my MP (apologies - missed that bit in the Newbies).

The date if the alleged event was 20/12223 and the NTK is dated 29/12/23 (but arrived 05/01/24).

Fruitcake

Where did the alleged event occur? It may have cropped up here before. If it's in a retail park, the managing agent's details may be on the main entrance totem sign.

Sadly, by my reckoning the NTK will be presumed to have arrived on the 3rd of January, (two working days after posting) which would be day 14, thus making it PoFA compliant.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't state it's actual arrival date, but don't expect the PPC to accept the appeal. 

Have you checked the wording on the NTK and compared it to the one in the Picture thread started by Coupon-mad, and against the PoFA to see if it is PoFA compliant.