smart parking fine in a council car park

Nunski82

Hi, I received a PCN in a council car park after paying for a normal parking space. What I did not realise is the space I had parked in was in a small area of bays for permit holders only, there was minimal signage on the metal beams above which when driving is not clear and the ticket machine which I used was right opposite the space so I did not think to make sure in a general car park that I was in a correct bay as I'd never come across it and it was my first time in this car park. I appealed to smart parking and showed them that I had paid correctly and it was a genuine mistake (and it was on my birthday bot that it makes a difference to them). My appeal was rejected obviously, I've been reading a lot of the threads and want to appeal to POPLA as I think £60 is extortionate and no one else was parked in these 'permit bays' so not liek I had inconvenienced anyone.

1- what evidence do I need to submit? I only have my parking ticket from the machine to show I paid and did not exceed timing
2- do i need to go back to the car park and take photos of their and the car paks signage?

Thanks for your help 

Keep_pedalling

Obtaining evidence the the signage was inadequate would be a good idea, so yeas obtain photos. 

Coupon-mad

Smart Parking don't work for Councils.

You've thrown away the 100% POPLA win.  Should have appealed as registered keeper.

Luckily, @Grizebeck has posted an alternative winning approach at POPLA v Smart.  Search his posts.

Nunski82

I realise that may be the case (although I don't remember ticking anything to say I was the driver). For my POPLA appeal I have searched and read through A LOT of posts by Grizebeck but there's so much information and back and forth in the threads I'm really confused with the wording. 

This is the only wording I could find which I think is for the appeal to SMART:

this is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual Group Nexus Trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NTK does not comply with POFA. As there is no keeper liability then liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and thus is an auto win @ POPLA. Please therefore cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code where you will auto withdraw.

Is there anyone that can help me with what to put in the POPLA appeal? Is is still worth appealing to POPLA? 

Umkomaas

Just use the near template appeal points in the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, third post, adjusted to reflect your parking event. 

This is a standard checklist, as often posted by forum stalwart @Fruitcake.  Key points to include in any POPLA appeal:

1) Non-PoFA compliant NTK/NTH (if appropriate)
2) Not the driver/not the person who may be liable for the charge (if non-PoFA)
3) Not the landowner/ No landowner contract
4) No standing to issue charges in their own name
5) Inadequate signage
6) BPA CoP failures (if appropriate)

@Grizebeck recommends focusing on Smart Parking's (lack of) formal contract arrangements with the landowner. So place 3) above as appeal point #1 to POPLA. We've seen Smart drop the case 'smartish' when they've been faced with having to provide evidence of this to POPLA. 

This is the only wording I could find which I think is for the appeal to SMART:

this is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual Group Nexus Trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NTK does not comply with POFA. As there is no keeper liability then liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and thus is an auto win @ POPLA. Please therefore cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code where you will auto withdraw.

Yes, that is aimed at the initial appeal to Smart. No longer appropriate now, don't use that in your POPLA appeal. 

KeithP

Did you find this thread...
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6424064/smart-park-appeal-rejection/p1

I used the search argument... smart popla appeal Grizebeck, selected Newest and up it popped.

Nunski82

Thank you so much for your detailed reply, I was feeling out of my depth. I’m going to go back tomorrow to gather evidence and will construct my appeal to POPLA. 

SMART extended the reduced fee to the 19th Jan. Is this the last day for me to appeal? How long from the initial appeal rejection do I have to appeal to POPLA? 

KeithP

Nunski82 said:

 How long from the initial appeal rejection do I have to appeal to POPLA? 

Your appeal rejection from Smart answers that - the letter that gives you a PoPLA code.

Coupon-mad

Nunski82 said:

Thank you so much for your detailed reply, I was feeling out of my depth. I’m going to go back tomorrow to gather evidence and will construct my appeal to POPLA. 

SMART extended the reduced fee to the 19th Jan. Is this the last day for me to appeal? How long from the initial appeal rejection do I have to appeal to POPLA? 

It looks like you've read the post by a brand new poster as if it's gospel, when in fact, the earlier replies on your thread are the ones to read more closely.  Those posters are regulars (look at our post counts) and know what they are talking about due to years of experience here.

Please be very wary of hanging your hat on a post by an unknown person with the same number of posts as you... it looks like they may have copied & pasted that from elsewhere and I'm afraid it isn't the best advice.

I hope you realised whose posts bear more weight even if you didn't realise that the content of the post by the new poster was - even if they are trying to help - wrong?  Their Point 4 is incorrect, for starters.

POPLA Codes last 33 days but the NEWBIES thread already tells you this.

Nunski82

I understand you’re trying to help but your comments only make me feel like giving up and paying. There is too much information on this forum. I have read the newbies thread(s) and it’s very confusing. The time and effort it’s going to take me to write the appeal, go back to the car park which is 20mins each way to take photo evidence and the mental stress of using this forum is probably not worth fighting for £60. 

Etccarmageddon

I would also advise against following any of the advice given by the brand new poster.

Clearly given by someone who has never won an appeal!

This kind of advice is useless 

"Mitigating Circumstances: While it may not directly influence the decision, mentioning that it was your birthday adds a human element to your appeal and emphasizes that the mistake was genuine and not habitual."