Anyone escaped from the BBC licence fee?

Gobsh

Anyone escaped from the BBC licence fee?

So you disconnect your Ariel

Get a streaming stick

Don't watch/install BBC iPlayer 

Don't watch live terrestrial TV (which technically doesn't exist on streaming platforms) because there is always a lapse

Questions

Do simultaneous streaming of live TV count as "live TV"?

Does "Watch from the start" count as "live TV"?

Rodders53

<Sarcasm ON>  No no one ever has escaped. </OFF>

https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/watching-live-online-and-on-mobile has TV Licensing's take on the subject.
Q1 Yes 100%
Q2 Probably Yes - cos to get to the 'watch from start' prompt you're watching the Live stream?

Coding and delivery delays exist on all Platforms: Terrestrial, Satellite, Cable and IP streaming.  So nothing is truly live nowadays..

Catchup TV is considered "not Live"  as the live broadcast programme has finished, and you are watching after that event.

Krakkkers

Have not paid TV license fee in years, can't remember how many now, about 5 - 7 years.
I watch youtube and some downloads.

amanda1024

Never bought a TV licence myself. ‘Simultaneous streaming’ sounds like live TV to me - you’d have to wait and watch on catch-up (and still not watch anything on bbc iplayer)

oldernonethewiser

Gobsh said:

Anyone escaped from the BBC licence fee?

So you disconnect your Ariel

Get a streaming stick

Don't watch/install BBC iPlayer 

Don't watch live terrestrial TV (which technically doesn't exist on streaming platforms) because there is always a lapse

Questions

Do simultaneous streaming of live TV count as "live TV"?

Does "Watch from the start" count as "live TV"?

There is nothing to escape. 

Don't need a TV licence then don't pay for one.

Streaming of a live broadcast requires a licence as does "watch from the start" of anything that is still being broadcast at the time.

Gobsh

Q2 not actually. If you go to live TV menu you have a choice to "watch live" or "watch from the beginning"

Rodders53 said:

<Sarcasm ON>  No no one ever has escaped. </OFF>

https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/watching-live-online-and-on-mobile has TV Licensing's take on the subject.

Q1 Yes 100%

Q2 Probably Yes - cos to get to the 'watch from start' prompt you're watching the Live stream?

Coding and delivery delays exist on all Platforms: Terrestrial, Satellite, Cable and IP streaming.  So nothing is truly live nowadays..

Catchup TV is considered "not Live"  as the live broadcast programme has finished, and you are watching after that event.

Gobsh

As I said. There's a delay to all streaming, ergo , not live, by definition 

amanda1024 said:

Never bought a TV licence myself. ‘Simultaneous streaming’ sounds like live TV to me - you’d have to wait and watch on catch-up (and still not watch anything on bbc iplayer)

Cornucopia

"Escaped"?   Yes and no.   Yes, I don't have a Licence, because I don't need one.   No, no one ever quite escapes the clutches of TV Licensing, and it pays to treat them with caution.   There are similarities between TVL and the Post Office.  

The Licence is a licence to receive TV broadcasts and BBC TV from iPlayer.   TV broadcasts are linear channels from licensed broadcasters, received via any of the traditional transmission methods or streamed online.

I wouldn't bother trying to be ingenious in working around the rules - just stick to commercial catch-up/on-demand and live streaming from non-broadcasters and you'll be fine.   

Q1:  Yes, absolutely.

Q2:  Probably not, unless you have to watch live in order to rewind it.   TVL have previously spoken about a 2 hour delay between live and catch-up, but that doesn't originate in legislation (i.e. they made it up).

"Live" doesn't originate in legislation, either.   I'd suggest not putting too much trust in it.

wild666

Gobsh said:

Anyone escaped from the BBC licence fee?

So you disconnect your Ariel

Get a streaming stick

Don't watch/install BBC iPlayer 

Don't watch live terrestrial TV (which technically doesn't exist on streaming platforms) because there is always a lapse

Questions

Do simultaneous streaming of live TV count as "live TV"?

Does "Watch from the start" count as "live TV"?

I didn't have a TV licence from August 1983 until August 2011 then I paid for a licence for 5 years because I had a TV subscription up until August 2016 when I went licence free again, I'm still licence free now. 
I only used to watch BT Sport online so I could have not paid for a licence as all my TV viewing was online and even with a warrant TVL wouldn't have access to my PC viewing habits as the licence only covers TV receiving equipment i'e. a TV set.
If something is online at the same time as it's shown on a TV channel then a licence is required to watch the content. I often watch live content on the FA player as these matches are from the championship of the women's football and have only a few thousand views per game and to the best of my knowledge aren't shown on any live as shown TV channel no licence is required.

MouldyOldDough

wild666 said:

Gobsh said:

Anyone escaped from the BBC licence fee?

So you disconnect your Ariel

Get a streaming stick

Don't watch/install BBC iPlayer 

Don't watch live terrestrial TV (which technically doesn't exist on streaming platforms) because there is always a lapse

Questions

Do simultaneous streaming of live TV count as "live TV"?

Does "Watch from the start" count as "live TV"?

I didn't have a TV licence from August 1983 until August 2011 then I paid for a licence for 5 years because I had a TV subscription up until August 2016 when I went licence free again, I'm still licence free now. 
I only used to watch BT Sport online so I could have not paid for a licence as all my TV viewing was online and even with a warrant TVL wouldn't have access to my PC viewing habits as the licence only covers TV receiving equipment i'e. a TV set.
If something is online at the same time as it's shown on a TV channel then a licence is required to watch the content. I often watch live content on the FA player as these matches are from the championship of the women's football and have only a few thousand views per game and to the best of my knowledge aren't shown on any live as shown TV channel no licence is required.

I'm sorry to inform you that once again you are breaking the law
You DO need a TV licence to watch on line TV

So you drive a mobility scooter at 8 mph on the pavements - totally oblivious to other pavement users https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80533384#Comment_80533384 and now appear proud that you are breaking the law watching unlicenced TV !!

Do I need a TV Licence to watch TV live online-only TV channel or service?

Yes, you need a TV Licence to watch live on any channel, TV service or streaming service, on any device. It doesn’t matter if you receive it over the internet, from a cable or satellite provider or through an aerial.

You could still need a TV Licence if you don’t have a TV

A TV Licence covers you to watch live on any channel, TV service or streaming service, and to use BBC iPlayer*.

This applies to any device, including a TV, computer, laptop, phone, tablet, games console or digital box.

Cornucopia

MouldyOldDough said:

wild666 said:

Gobsh said:

Anyone escaped from the BBC licence fee?

So you disconnect your Ariel

Get a streaming stick

Don't watch/install BBC iPlayer 

Don't watch live terrestrial TV (which technically doesn't exist on streaming platforms) because there is always a lapse

Questions

Do simultaneous streaming of live TV count as "live TV"?

Does "Watch from the start" count as "live TV"?

I didn't have a TV licence from August 1983 until August 2011 then I paid for a licence for 5 years because I had a TV subscription up until August 2016 when I went licence free again, I'm still licence free now. 
I only used to watch BT Sport online so I could have not paid for a licence as all my TV viewing was online and even with a warrant TVL wouldn't have access to my PC viewing habits as the licence only covers TV receiving equipment i'e. a TV set.
If something is online at the same time as it's shown on a TV channel then a licence is required to watch the content. I often watch live content on the FA player as these matches are from the championship of the women's football and have only a few thousand views per game and to the best of my knowledge aren't shown on any live as shown TV channel no licence is required.

I'm sorry to inform you that once again you are breaking the law
You DO need a TV licence to watch on line TV

So you drive a mobility scooter at 8 mph on the pavements - totally oblivious to other pavement users https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80533384#Comment_80533384 and now appear proud that you are breaking the law watching unlicenced TV !!

Do I need a TV Licence to watch TV live online-only TV channel or service?

Yes, you need a TV Licence to watch live on any channel, TV service or streaming service, on any device. It doesn’t matter if you receive it over the internet, from a cable or satellite provider or through an aerial.

You could still need a TV Licence if you don’t have a TV

A TV Licence covers you to watch live on any channel, TV service or streaming service, and to use BBC iPlayer*.

This applies to any device, including a TV, computer, laptop, phone, tablet, games console or digital box.

I don't particularly want to get into the question of whether other users are breaking the "law" or not - I wouldn't be so bold.   

However, I can tell you that the TVL guidance you've posted is wrong, and it's clear that it's wrong (though it somewhat depends on what they mean by "streaming service").

You need a Licence to view or record TV broadcast channels via terrestrial, satellite or cable TV.   You also need a Licence to view any of those channels concurrently (to their broadcast) using internet streaming.    And also BBC TV content on iPlayer.

Anything else is at best a grey area (which needs testing in court), or is definitively not within the scope of the TV Licence.   I don't know about BT Sport, but certainly Amazon Sport will include live content at times that is not subject to concurrent broadcast and therefore doesn't need a Licence to view.

More generally, there is a wide variety of live streamed content on platforms like Youtube and Twitch - the vast majority of that content doesn't originate with broadcasters and therefore doesn't require a Licence to view it.

BBC/TV Licensing seem to have done their level best to confuse things, and the white heat of technological change doesn't help.

edit:  Their Q&A on "Do I need a Licence to watch Youtube?" digs into the detail rather more robustly than their comments above.   This is what they say:-

"You don’t need a TV Licence to watch videos or clips on demand on YouTube.

But you do need a TV Licence if you watch live TV on YouTube.

An example of this would be watching Sky News live. But it isn’t just live news or sport which needs a licence – it’s any programme which is part of a TV channel, shown or transmitted for everyone to watch at the same time".