John Lewis earbuds return problem

RefluentBeans

Undervalued said:

Alderbank said:

On balance of probabilities they were bought in store.

JLP has a published refunds policy so they absolutely do have an obligation to refund according to the terms of that policy.

Our returns policy

If you've changed your mind about keeping your purchase, please return it within 30 days in its original condition with proof of purchase. We'll exchange or refund it, as long as it meets our terms and conditions...

By original condition we mean: you haven’t used the product and the product can be resold at full price.

Any limiting T&Cs not available to the consumer at the point of sale are automatically considered unfair contract terms and can be ignored.

The OP confirms that his wife was not told the T&Cs at the point of buying his gift and there were no point of sale notices visible, so he must have been present at the time when she bought it. However I often visit my local John Lewis in Edinburgh and they seem quite proud of their returns policy which is prominently displayed.

The OP says he has fitted the earbuds into his ears and listened to them long enough to decide he doesn't like them. Does that breach the T&Cs?

Yes, at least according to the parts of the T&Cs you have quoted! Which says "By original condition we mean: you haven’t used the product and the product can be resold at full price."

And to add - the limiting T&C’s (meaning that they limit the return) would’ve been visible at the toll points, and around the store; as well as freely available online. If the OP didn’t notice them, then that’s on the OP I’m afraid. 

If the OP purchased the product online - it would be reasonable to open the box to inspect the products, but I don’t think it would be reasonable to listen to the product. If the OP has admitted to listening to them (and doing so by inserting them into the ear canal) then I do think that’s above the threshold for checking the quality of the product and thus retailers could deduct some portion of money. But I think it would be hard for them to make the claim the claim should be for 100% of the RRP. Even if they had to dispose of them, I would think that the price to deduct would be the cost they paid for the product (loss of profit only). 

If purchased in store, I think you’re up a creek with no paddle, as the returns policy clearly states that the product should be in original condition (and even describes this). 

Emmia

sheramber said:

Alderbank said:

The OP says he has fitted the earbuds into his ears and listened to them long enough to decide he doesn't like them. Does that breach the T&Cs?

You could say he used them

And we've no idea how long that test was - a few seconds with one bud, or a couple of hours of listening...

In either case the box and the buds have been unsealed and unwrapped so from John Lewis' perspective they're used and not resellable. If a refund was offered, JL would need to absorb the cost of the refund and any cost of disposal. They're a business, not a charity. 

Earbuds (especially Apple ones) are not cheap, I have wondered if there is a bit of "buyers remorse" coming into play...

Aylesbury_Duck

BoGoF said:

rightcharlie said:

Thanks for the replies… I can confirm that my wife was not informed of the return ban when she bought them. I would still say that if John Lewis are not going to take back “tried on” earbuds the MUST tell potential customers of that fact BEFORE purchase as they do not say that on their website, they cannot rely on word of mouth from the staff. Rather they must mark the product packaging and/ or put a sign at the cash point and / or mark receipts with the information. The point about would you buy a pair of earbuds that someone else has put in their ears asks a very large question about trying earbuds in store before buying! One cannot expect that they are brand new ones, and if they’ve been sanitised why can’t John Lewis do the the same sanitisation to returned earbuds? They must do that to ones returned from an online order… or do they..?

So are we to deduce that they were in fact bought in-store?

If so, then there in absolutely zero obligation on John Lewis or any other retailer to refund items bought in store (unless faulty). Therefore there is no need to have signs at cash points or anywhere else.

That's not necessarily correct.  If JL or that other retailer has a returns policy that allows a refund for a change of mind return for an item bought in store, then there absolutely is an obligation to refund, providing the customer meets any conditions of that return (things like excluded items, original packaging and receipt).  A retailer can't sell something under a contract that includes change-of-mind returns and later reduce the contract to statutory rights only.

Undervalued

Aylesbury_Duck said:

BoGoF said:

rightcharlie said:

Thanks for the replies… I can confirm that my wife was not informed of the return ban when she bought them. I would still say that if John Lewis are not going to take back “tried on” earbuds the MUST tell potential customers of that fact BEFORE purchase as they do not say that on their website, they cannot rely on word of mouth from the staff. Rather they must mark the product packaging and/ or put a sign at the cash point and / or mark receipts with the information. The point about would you buy a pair of earbuds that someone else has put in their ears asks a very large question about trying earbuds in store before buying! One cannot expect that they are brand new ones, and if they’ve been sanitised why can’t John Lewis do the the same sanitisation to returned earbuds? They must do that to ones returned from an online order… or do they..?

So are we to deduce that they were in fact bought in-store?

If so, then there in absolutely zero obligation on John Lewis or any other retailer to refund items bought in store (unless faulty). Therefore there is no need to have signs at cash points or anywhere else.

That's not necessarily correct.  If JL or that other retailer has a returns policy that allows a refund for a change of mind return for an item bought in store, then there absolutely is an obligation to refund, providing the customer meets any conditions of that return (things like excluded items, original packaging and receipt).  A retailer can't sell something under a contract that includes change-of-mind returns and later reduce the contract to statutory rights only.

Indeed.

However it is a moot point as, based on the quotes from JL's policy copied here, the OP has gone well beyond what is allowed to qualify for a return and refund.

Aylesbury_Duck

Undervalued said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

BoGoF said:

rightcharlie said:

Thanks for the replies… I can confirm that my wife was not informed of the return ban when she bought them. I would still say that if John Lewis are not going to take back “tried on” earbuds the MUST tell potential customers of that fact BEFORE purchase as they do not say that on their website, they cannot rely on word of mouth from the staff. Rather they must mark the product packaging and/ or put a sign at the cash point and / or mark receipts with the information. The point about would you buy a pair of earbuds that someone else has put in their ears asks a very large question about trying earbuds in store before buying! One cannot expect that they are brand new ones, and if they’ve been sanitised why can’t John Lewis do the the same sanitisation to returned earbuds? They must do that to ones returned from an online order… or do they..?

So are we to deduce that they were in fact bought in-store?

If so, then there in absolutely zero obligation on John Lewis or any other retailer to refund items bought in store (unless faulty). Therefore there is no need to have signs at cash points or anywhere else.

That's not necessarily correct.  If JL or that other retailer has a returns policy that allows a refund for a change of mind return for an item bought in store, then there absolutely is an obligation to refund, providing the customer meets any conditions of that return (things like excluded items, original packaging and receipt).  A retailer can't sell something under a contract that includes change-of-mind returns and later reduce the contract to statutory rights only.

Indeed.

However it is a moot point as, based on the quotes from JL's policy copied here, the OP has gone well beyond what is allowed to qualify for a return and refund.

Yes, I see that.

Thank you for using "moot" correctly.  It's so rare to see it not spelled "mute"...

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

RefluentBeans said:

If the OP purchased the product online - it would be reasonable to open the box to inspect the products, but I don’t think it would be reasonable to listen to the product.

The limit of application is 

in the case of a contract for the supply of sealed goods which are not suitable for return due to health protection or hygiene reasons, if they become unsealed after delivery;

So when referring to a product that meets the health protection or hygiene reasons if the outer box is sealed and becomes unsealed the right to cancel is lost.

If the outer box isn't sealed but the inner contents are then if the inner contents becomes unsealed the right to cancel is lost but you'd be able to open the outer box without losing the right to cancel. .

If nothing is sealed then it doesn't matter what the item is, whether that's ear buds or intimate toys, the limit doesn't apply and the right to cancel exists regardless.

That of course applies to a distance (or off-premises) contract, contracts concluded in store are bound by the in additional return policy, if present, which can impose it's own fair terms.   

rightcharlie

I was not present at time of sale…. apparently one can try earbuds (demonstration models) which is what I was told I should have done before my wife bought my surprise Christmas gift!

sheramber

rightcharlie said:

I was not present at time of sale…. apparently one can try earbuds (demonstration models) which is what I was told I should have done before my wife bought my surprise Christmas gift!

You could have  gone into the store and tried the demo ones in the shop before opeoing the sealed package and trying them.

Alderbank

sheramber said:

rightcharlie said:

I was not present at time of sale…. apparently one can try earbuds (demonstration models) which is what I was told I should have done before my wife bought my surprise Christmas gift!

You could have  gone into the store and tried the demo ones in the shop before opeoing the sealed package and trying them.

Indeed you could.

All their stores were closed on Christmas Day and Boxing Day.

To me it sounds a little churlish to say to your wife, 'Thank you so much for my present darling, it's exactly what I wanted. I'll just stick it in the drawer unopened until I can get round to the shop. Oh, and you've not thrown the receipt away I hope?'

Others might disagree of course.

sheramber

That is the risk when buying something for someone else. 

They might not like it. 

Is it any worse than him saying sorry, these are not good enough. I want to return them. 

I receive gifts and give gifts with the gift receipt so the receiver can return/ exchange the gift.  More so when it is an expensive item.