John Lewis earbuds return problem

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Emmia said:

Undervalued said:

Emmia said:

prettyandfluffy said:

Unless they are faulty I think JL are correct in saying they cannot be returned for reasons of hygiene - this also applies to things like jewellery for piercings.  Obviously they could not resell them, would you want to buy earbuds that had been used by someone else? 

No returns for headphones / earbuds (for hygiene reasons) has been the case for 25+ years.

Although that may be a standard (and very sensible) policy I am not sure the law is quite as black and white as you suggest if the item is bought mail order? Earbuds don't go back 25 years and with over the ear headphones is the position any different to, say, buying a hat or gloves?

All a moot point if bought in the shop unless their terms of business convey rights over and above the legal minimum.

In ear earphones go back much further than buds, and have the same hygiene issue. I know this as a friend from college (late 90's) tried to return some in ear headphones purchased in-store (not faulty, change of mind) but was refused a refund, on the basis of hygiene.

Hats, especially those for weddings are also often unreturnable and based on my recent personal experience John Lewis highlighted that some expensive walking socks I was considering as a gift for my husband last Christmas were also not returnable... I didn't buy them as a result.

CCRs are from 2013, the CJEU mattress case may have some bearing on this issue but it would likely need to be clarified by a court.

The mattress case made reference to sleeping on a mattress in a hotel and a mattress being similar to garment in terms of hygiene whereas the same comparison can't be drawn for headphones.

The idea is if the goods can be restored, for example through clearing, then the hygiene exemption shouldn't apply, instead the cost of the diminished value (the cleaning and any reduction in value) should be deducted for excessive handling.

Of course you could argue a pair of headphones like this would be worthless due to the stigma but you could say the same about a mattress really. 

Emmia

elsien said:

John Lewis returns policy does not list earbuds as one of the items that can’t be returned for hygiene reasons.
as above the rest depends on whether it was an in-store or online purchase.

But they do mention in the online bit as they don't take back unsealed items... These were unsealed. 

Emmia

We don't know if the earbuds were bought in-store or online.

rightcharlie

Thanks for the replies… I can confirm that my wife was not informed of the return ban when she bought them. I would still say that if John Lewis are not going to take back “tried on” earbuds the MUST tell potential customers of that fact BEFORE purchase as they do not say that on their website, they cannot rely on word of mouth from the staff. Rather they must mark the product packaging and/ or put a sign at the cash point and / or mark receipts with the information. The point about would you buy a pair of earbuds that someone else has put in their ears asks a very large question about trying earbuds in store before buying! One cannot expect that they are brand new ones, and if they’ve been sanitised why can’t John Lewis do the the same sanitisation to returned earbuds? They must do that to ones returned from an online order… or do they..?

Undervalued

Emmia said:

elsien said:

John Lewis returns policy does not list earbuds as one of the items that can’t be returned for hygiene reasons.
as above the rest depends on whether it was an in-store or online purchase.

But they do mention in the online bit as they don't take back unsealed items... These were unsealed. 

However that may not be lawful if "reasonable inspection" requires unsealing.

But as we have both indicated, all this is moot if bought in store and not by mail order.

screech_78

rightcharlie said:

Thanks for the replies… I can confirm that my wife was not informed of the return ban when she bought them. I would still say that if John Lewis are not going to take back “tried on” earbuds the MUST tell potential customers of that fact BEFORE purchase as they do not say that on their website, they cannot rely on word of mouth from the staff. Rather they must mark the product packaging and/ or put a sign at the cash point and / or mark receipts with the information. The point about would you buy a pair of earbuds that someone else has put in their ears asks a very large question about trying earbuds in store before buying! One cannot expect that they are brand new ones, and if they’ve been sanitised why can’t John Lewis do the the same sanitisation to returned earbuds? They must do that to ones returned from an online order… or do they..?

I’m confused about this part in bold. You cannot try out earbuds in any JL store. For obvious reasons. 

BoGoF

rightcharlie said:

Thanks for the replies… I can confirm that my wife was not informed of the return ban when she bought them. I would still say that if John Lewis are not going to take back “tried on” earbuds the MUST tell potential customers of that fact BEFORE purchase as they do not say that on their website, they cannot rely on word of mouth from the staff. Rather they must mark the product packaging and/ or put a sign at the cash point and / or mark receipts with the information. The point about would you buy a pair of earbuds that someone else has put in their ears asks a very large question about trying earbuds in store before buying! One cannot expect that they are brand new ones, and if they’ve been sanitised why can’t John Lewis do the the same sanitisation to returned earbuds? They must do that to ones returned from an online order… or do they..?

So are we to deduce that they were in fact bought in-store?

If so, then there in absolutely zero obligation on John Lewis or any other retailer to refund items bought in store (unless faulty). Therefore there is no need to have signs at cash points or anywhere else.

Alderbank

On balance of probabilities they were bought in store.

JLP has a published refunds policy so they absolutely do have an obligation to refund according to the terms of that policy.

Our returns policy

If you've changed your mind about keeping your purchase, please return it within 30 days in its original condition with proof of purchase. We'll exchange or refund it, as long as it meets our terms and conditions...

By original condition we mean: you haven’t used the product and the product can be resold at full price.

Any limiting T&Cs not available to the consumer at the point of sale are automatically considered unfair contract terms and can be ignored.

The OP confirms that his wife was not told the T&Cs at the point of buying his gift and there were no point of sale notices visible, so he must have been present at the time when she bought it. However I often visit my local John Lewis in Edinburgh and they seem quite proud of their returns policy which is prominently displayed.

The OP says he has fitted the earbuds into his ears and listened to them long enough to decide he doesn't like them. Does that breach the T&Cs?

sheramber

Alderbank said:

The OP says he has fitted the earbuds into his ears and listened to them long enough to decide he doesn't like them. Does that breach the T&Cs?

You could say he used them

Undervalued

Alderbank said:

On balance of probabilities they were bought in store.

JLP has a published refunds policy so they absolutely do have an obligation to refund according to the terms of that policy.

Our returns policy

If you've changed your mind about keeping your purchase, please return it within 30 days in its original condition with proof of purchase. We'll exchange or refund it, as long as it meets our terms and conditions...

By original condition we mean: you haven’t used the product and the product can be resold at full price.

Any limiting T&Cs not available to the consumer at the point of sale are automatically considered unfair contract terms and can be ignored.

The OP confirms that his wife was not told the T&Cs at the point of buying his gift and there were no point of sale notices visible, so he must have been present at the time when she bought it. However I often visit my local John Lewis in Edinburgh and they seem quite proud of their returns policy which is prominently displayed.

The OP says he has fitted the earbuds into his ears and listened to them long enough to decide he doesn't like them. Does that breach the T&Cs?

Yes, at least according to the parts of the T&Cs you have quoted! Which says "By original condition we mean: you haven’t used the product and the product can be resold at full price."