Vodafone-we want to upgrade you from fttc to fttp

I am currently a vodafone broadband fttc customer. I live in an urbanised environment very close to a town centre. 
I know where my street cabinet is and its probably about 4 mins walk in a straight line.

I could see it if there were not buildings in the way.

Like most cabs its a traditional one which has bundles of copper pairs and now a fibre link .

I recently had an email from vodafone saying they want to upgrade me to fttp as they are doing it in the area. I think the network provider does this and i think this is openreach or its contractors, possibly cityfibre.

I am unclear as to how they are going to do this.

My housing area was built in the early 1980s.

Out on the street there are small BT duct covers through which my copper pair passes and then emerges  in a wall mounted terminal box outside which of course is then fed inside and terminated in a typical BT line box.


The cable in the manhole outside isnt ducted, its just buried in the earth and goes off to wherever it goes.

So then, are they really going to dig up the roads everywhere to put in ducts to feed a bit of fibre from the street cab all the way to my front door?

Telephone poles- the only ones here are a few planted by BRSK about 18 months ago that no one uses. 

Do Openreach have a sharing agreement with BRSK and if so, is that the potential route for my bit of fibre ?

There is no price increase though of course they will likely try and sell me higher fttp speeds.
Thanks all

Id appreciate anyone sharing their experiences of this upgrade.


Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
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Comments

  • iniltous
    iniltous Posts: 2,978
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    edited 12 January at 3:42PM
    Vodafone use City Fibre and Openreach, but they ‘favour’ City Fibre,  so in areas where they have customers on Openreach network, and can convince them to change network , they will move them onto CF and abandon the OR connection, it’s never the other way around .
    I would imagine that City Fibre has becomes available, and  this is the why you have had the offer to move .

    CF , although they are allowed to use Openreach infrastructure like poles , ducts , joint boxes,  they are direct competitors, there is no arrangement ( or love lost ) between them as far as gaining or losing customers , obviously OR wouldn’t want you to move onto a competitor network, that’s the same with BRSK or anyone else for that matter , although BRSK are a combined network and ISP like Virgin , where only BRSK use BRSK network.

    BRSK don’t allow other companies onto their network or use their assets , City Fibre is like Openreach in that they are a network provider not an  ISP , so CF want ISP’s to use their network instead of OR or anyone else , AFAIK, there is no cosy deal between BRSK and City Fibre they are also competing for the same customers.

    If you suspect your current Openreach copper cable isn’t in a duct , then CF will need to provide the means to get their optical cable to your home , this could be overhead or underground as they use both methods, but if the only poles  nearby are BRSK , then chances are CF  will excavate and use an underground method , although it’s possible they could put up their own poles near the BRSK ones , but that would normally already be done if overhead were to be used .

    The way CF normally do underground feeds , is they dig up all the footpaths on ‘en-masse’ in the area , and leave an access point in the footpath, outside each address they are interested in , ( done before any orders are taken by ISP companies ) , if that address signs up with an ISP that uses CF , CF or a contractor excavate through the customers garden from the access point to the house wall and connect up to the CF network …..if they have already done the footpaths presumably you would have seem them ( or their contractors ) recently digging up everywhere near you , installing these access points ( Toby boxes ) in the footpaths outside each address .

    Its perfectly reasonable for you to ask VF to confirm the network they are going to put you on ( if you agree to the switch, obviously you don’t have to agree ) and ask what provision method the network provider ( City Fibre ) are going to use , overhead , underground etc , they should be able to give you that information if there is no obvious CF network visible, like toby boxes etc.

    Its possible that VF have jumped the gun and are asking you potentially months before CF have even started 
  • wild666
    wild666 Posts: 2,100
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    I see any BB provider wanting to put a customer on FTTP rather than FTTC in most cases is trying to get the customer to pay more for the service they provide even if the customer still opts to get the same or similar  speeds as they had with FTTC. 
    Someone please tell me what money is
  • iniltous
    iniltous Posts: 2,978
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    That’s not necessarily true , BT for example charge exactly the same amount for 40Mb, 55Mb and 80Mb irrespective of it being on FTTP or FTTC .
  • C_Mababejive
    C_Mababejive Posts: 11,645
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    Thank you INILTOUS for your very comprehensive reply.

    There has been zero installation work done in the area .

    I had slightly misunderstood it as i thought that openreach were planning to abandon big chunks of their copper network in my area so VOD were giving me the heads up regarding the full switch of my data and indicating that i would be carried on the new openreach FTTP network!

    I am not sure they have been totally transparent in their email !

    Cityfibre must surely be plotting a larger scale infill in my area as they arent going to dig for hundreds of meters just for me.
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
  • iniltous
    iniltous Posts: 2,978
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    edited 12 January at 10:51PM
    If it’s Openreach that have FTTP available in your area  and VF are offering you a switch from FTTC to FTTP while remaining with Openreach , that’s definitely possible, as stated VF prefer City Fibre when both are available but don’t refuse to use the  Openreach FTTP in areas where there is no City Fibre but OR is available.
     
    If Openreach FTTP is available it will be shown here
    https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

    Use the address option as a VF phone number won’t be recognised as it’s not BTw number .
    If your address shows WBC FTTP available   look for the survey note similar to this 

    Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.

    Does  yours show  something like ‘partial DIG’  ?

    Openreach used to develop underground areas with no duct in the same way how City Fibre do it with a Toby  box  provided outside every address , this  however is very expensive, there is no guarantee that the investment will pay off if no one orders Openreach FTTP and Alt Nets can use this brand new duct and Toby box arrangement by using PIA access , even before Openreach get to use it themselves , so it’s now done differently,

    Excavation is now done only if an address actually orders FTTP service ,even if that requires  up to 100m of duct being provided  ( if that is the distance from the footway jointbox containing the CBT to the house ordering it ) and even though that could mean revisiting the same footpath many times and doing more excavation if neighbours  orders FTTP , that’s now the way DIG areas are handled by Openreach 
  • C_Mababejive
    C_Mababejive Posts: 11,645
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    Hmmm on the above link for my address entry it shows:

    WBC FTTP availability date  > waiting list 
    FTTP install process > BLANK
    FTTP priority exchange >NO

    in a straight line im about 100m from the street cab, and maybe 80 m from the nearest older road which is likely to have historical openreach ducting
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
  • 35har1old
    35har1old Posts: 943
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    I am currently a vodafone broadband fttc customer. I live in an urbanised environment very close to a town centre. 
    I know where my street cabinet is and its probably about 4 mins walk in a straight line.

    I could see it if there were not buildings in the way.

    Like most cabs its a traditional one which has bundles of copper pairs and now a fibre link .

    I recently had an email from vodafone saying they want to upgrade me to fttp as they are doing it in the area. I think the network provider does this and i think this is openreach or its contractors, possibly cityfibre.

    I am unclear as to how they are going to do this.

    My housing area was built in the early 1980s.

    Out on the street there are small BT duct covers through which my copper pair passes and then emerges  in a wall mounted terminal box outside which of course is then fed inside and terminated in a typical BT line box.


    The cable in the manhole outside isnt ducted, its just buried in the earth and goes off to wherever it goes.

    So then, are they really going to dig up the roads everywhere to put in ducts to feed a bit of fibre from the street cab all the way to my front door?

    Telephone poles- the only ones here are a few planted by BRSK about 18 months ago that no one uses. 

    Do Openreach have a sharing agreement with BRSK and if so, is that the potential route for my bit of fibre ?

    There is no price increase though of course they will likely try and sell me higher fttp speeds.
    Thanks all

    Id appreciate anyone sharing their experiences of this upgrade.


    Thank you INILTOUS for your very comprehensive reply.

    There has been zero installation work done in the area .

    I had slightly misunderstood it as i thought that openreach were planning to abandon big chunks of their copper network in my area so VOD were giving me the heads up regarding the full switch of my data and indicating that i would be carried on the new openreach FTTP network!

    I am not sure they have been totally transparent in their email !

    Cityfibre must surely be plotting a larger scale infill in my area as they arent going to dig for hundreds of meters just for me.
    They may install poles instead
  • 35har1old
    35har1old Posts: 943
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper
    Forumite
    I am currently a vodafone broadband fttc customer. I live in an urbanised environment very close to a town centre. 
    I know where my street cabinet is and its probably about 4 mins walk in a straight line.

    I could see it if there were not buildings in the way.

    Like most cabs its a traditional one which has bundles of copper pairs and now a fibre link .

    I recently had an email from vodafone saying they want to upgrade me to fttp as they are doing it in the area. I think the network provider does this and i think this is openreach or its contractors, possibly cityfibre.

    I am unclear as to how they are going to do this.

    My housing area was built in the early 1980s.

    Out on the street there are small BT duct covers through which my copper pair passes and then emerges  in a wall mounted terminal box outside which of course is then fed inside and terminated in a typical BT line box.


    The cable in the manhole outside isnt ducted, its just buried in the earth and goes off to wherever it goes.

    So then, are they really going to dig up the roads everywhere to put in ducts to feed a bit of fibre from the street cab all the way to my front door?

    Telephone poles- the only ones here are a few planted by BRSK about 18 months ago that no one uses. 

    Do Openreach have a sharing agreement with BRSK and if so, is that the potential route for my bit of fibre ?

    There is no price increase though of course they will likely try and sell me higher fttp speeds.
    Thanks all

    Id appreciate anyone sharing their experiences of this upgrade.


    I am currently a vodafone broadband fttc customer. I live in an urbanised environment very close to a town centre. 
    I know where my street cabinet is and its probably about 4 mins walk in a straight line.

    I could see it if there were not buildings in the way.

    Like most cabs its a traditional one which has bundles of copper pairs and now a fibre link .

    I recently had an email from vodafone saying they want to upgrade me to fttp as they are doing it in the area. I think the network provider does this and i think this is openreach or its contractors, possibly cityfibre.

    I am unclear as to how they are going to do this.

    My housing area was built in the early 1980s.

    Out on the street there are small BT duct covers through which my copper pair passes and then emerges  in a wall mounted terminal box outside which of course is then fed inside and terminated in a typical BT line box.


    The cable in the manhole outside isnt ducted, its just buried in the earth and goes off to wherever it goes.

    So then, are they really going to dig up the roads everywhere to put in ducts to feed a bit of fibre from the street cab all the way to my front door?

    Telephone poles- the only ones here are a few planted by BRSK about 18 months ago that no one uses. 

    Do Openreach have a sharing agreement with BRSK and if so, is that the potential route for my bit of fibre ?

    There is no price increase though of course they will likely try and sell me higher fttp speeds.
    Thanks all

    Id appreciate anyone sharing their experiences of this upgrade.


    You say the cables don't appear to be ducted is there another connection box with several services leaving to other premises.
    Not all fibre connections are made in cabinet 
  • 35har1old
    35har1old Posts: 943
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    edited 15 January at 11:13AM
    iniltous said:
    If it’s Openreach that have FTTP available in your area  and VF are offering you a switch from FTTC to FTTP while remaining with Openreach , that’s definitely possible, as stated VF prefer City Fibre when both are available but don’t refuse to use the  Openreach FTTP in areas where there is no City Fibre but OR is available.
     
    If Openreach FTTP is available it will be shown here
    https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

    Use the address option as a VF phone number won’t be recognised as it’s not BTw number .
    If your address shows WBC FTTP available   look for the survey note similar to this 

    Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.

    Does  yours show  something like ‘partial DIG’  ?

    Openreach used to develop underground areas with no duct in the same way how City Fibre do it with a Toby  box  provided outside every address , this  however is very expensive, there is no guarantee that the investment will pay off if no one orders Openreach FTTP and Alt Nets can use this brand new duct and Toby box arrangement by using PIA access , even before Openreach get to use it themselves , so it’s now done differently,

    Excavation is now done only if an address actually orders FTTP service ,even if that requires  up to 100m of duct being provided  ( if that is the distance from the footway jointbox containing the CBT to the house ordering it ) and even though that could mean revisiting the same footpath many times and doing more excavation if neighbours  orders FTTP , that’s now the way DIG areas are handled by Openreach 
    If openreach where to ex 100m there would install ducts cable of taking more than one cable 
    Footpaths don't have a massive amount of space to take the number ducts that would be involved in your method as they are meant to laid to the kerbside you also have water gas and electric all needing separation from each other
    New builds have one 100mm duct installed  between underground boxes and smaller ducts laid to each property 
    Virgin installing in already made up footpaths install cabinets and then ducts to each property boundary so no revisiting for further excavation in footpath
    Another reason for not revisiting is utility companies have to stand over the reinstatement for 2 years your scenario would mean they would be continually responsible 
  • iniltous
    iniltous Posts: 2,978
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    edited 15 January at 11:26AM
    It’s not particularly clear from the OP responses if OR FTTP is available or not , but the likelihood is that it isn’t , so its back to the assumption that if Vodafone are offering a migration from FTTC supplied by Openreach to FTTP , then that FTTP will be on City Fibre.
    Because the OP hasn’t seen any obvious City Fibre network provision work ( digging up the footpaths) , it’s unclear what would happen if they took up VF offer of an upgrade, perhaps Vodafone would simply record this agreement to upgrade for use at some future date, or perhaps they would eventually state they messed up and were offering something that cannot be provided.

    If VF were offering  this upgrade to myself, and I were interested in taking them up on that offer , I would ask them some questions, what  FTTP network , Openreach or City Fibre ,  what method of provision, overhead or underground , and how long before this  would happen.

    VF may simply be getting an agreement to move to CF FTTP in advance, even when there is no immediate prospect of it happening,  they then have permission, so when CF do roll out their network, they can use this  prior agreement ( which may have been made many months previously ) and they can then move the OP without having to get any further agreement , this may even be part of the City Fibre rollout decision strategy , if VF get many prior agreements and advise CF if this , CF may then consider that area , if not many sign up in advance it may be CF decide to not to bother with that area at all .

    As stated though , If Openreach do upgrade DIG ( direct in ground ) areas , and thats mainly housing built in the 1960’s through to the late 1980’s , then the fibre equipment is located in existing joint boxes and no excavation takes place ( unless the ducts to the boxes need work ) until an order is received, and that’s a recent change to the toby box outside every address method previously used
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