Covered by consumer rights act 2015?

RefluentBeans

ArbitraryRandom said:

If what you're saying is that it isn't the same as the one you tested in store, what you want to quote is this: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/14/enacted (section 14 of the CRA 2015)

Follow through to here to see your rights under the different sections (you want to look at paragraph 3): https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/19/enacted 

Section 14 leads you here (section 22): https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/22/enacted 

i.e. if you haven't already, write to them including links to/quotes from the sections above and say you using your short term right to reject under the consumer rights act due to the model they delivered not matching the sample you tested in store as per section 14. 

If/when they refuse, that's what you then take to your credit card - that you tried to reject the goods under section 14 and the store refused. 

The issue is going to be that the bed the OP ordered presumably is the same model as the one purchased in store, and the fault of ‘too hard’ may not be a fault as all beds require bedding in to some extent (literally where the term comes from!). 

The credit card company will likely attempt a chargeback first, which will fail as the retailer has a valid point that they fulfilled the contract, and the OP has the product. A S75 claim may not be successful as the OP still has the product, and the product isn’t evidently faulty. 

We’ve seen it several times on this board of people not understanding the bedding in times/hardness of beds changing over time. Unfortunately bed sellers tend to not have medical degrees, or even any basic anatomy training. Going to a general bed store with a specialist issue is often not the way to get the best result. Specialist bed manufacturers exist, but they often charge a lot more but also promise a lot more and have a lot more protection. 

Ultimately here, the bed isn’t faulty and requires bedding in. The only hope the OP has is if the seller claimed that the bed would be exactly this soft, but I doubt that would’ve been said - more
likely something like ‘it is constructed in the same
way as this bed’ would’ve been said which is true.  OP is there a sleep guarantee from the mattress people? That often provide something like that to have an extended trying time, so you could potentially claim on that (but this exceeds your legal rights, and so they may deduct some money - it will depend on the terms). 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

RefluentBeans said:

We’ve seen it several times on this board of people not understanding the bedding in times/hardness of beds changing over time. 

I think this whole issue with beds and sofas hinges on what "Goods to match a model seen or examined" would mean with these kinds of goods. 

Should such items be available test in such a manner, should they be replaced sooner to be a closer match to what they are like when delivered, is it a fair representation given that is how the goods will (in most cases likely) end up being?

There is an exemption to the Goods to match a model seen or examined and that is any differences between the goods seen and the goods delivered to the consumer which are brought to the consumer's attention, perhaps these bed and sofa stores just need clearer information about how the goods are until they've softened up through use.

In terms of OP's bad back, "Goods to be fit for particular purpose" relates to the consumer simply making it known the goods are for a specific purpose, OP merely mentioning they have a bad back and need a mattress to assist in comfortable sleeping could meet this. I agree the salesperson probably knows naff all about bad backs but this falls within the category that rarely occurs, declining a sale and letting the consumer find a place that can meet their specific needs. 

ArbitraryRandom

RefluentBeans said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

If what you're saying is that it isn't the same as the one you tested in store, what you want to quote is this: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/14/enacted (section 14 of the CRA 2015)

Follow through to here to see your rights under the different sections (you want to look at paragraph 3): https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/19/enacted 

Section 14 leads you here (section 22): https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/22/enacted 

i.e. if you haven't already, write to them including links to/quotes from the sections above and say you using your short term right to reject under the consumer rights act due to the model they delivered not matching the sample you tested in store as per section 14. 

If/when they refuse, that's what you then take to your credit card - that you tried to reject the goods under section 14 and the store refused. 

The issue is going to be that the bed the OP ordered presumably is the same model as the one purchased in store, and the fault of ‘too hard’ may not be a fault as all beds require bedding in to some extent (literally where the term comes from!)... 

Ultimately here, the bed isn’t faulty and requires bedding in...

I'm a little worried we're talking at cross purposes - the OP was presumably invited to 'test' the models in store (explicitly or implicitly) to have an idea as to the quality/firmness/support of the products on offer. The product delivered did not then have those same qualities. In simple terms I would say it 'did not match the model in store'. If you are disliking the word 'model', then you could instead say that it was not satisfactory quality or as per lunatic, not fit for purpose. 

As for etymology...

I think we can agree, 'bedding' is a sheet that goes on the mattress to protect it from dirt/damage. It adds little to nothing to the amount of give or support in a mattress? 

Possibly you could also include a mattress topper under the category of 'bedding' - but if one was in use on the display model and this was not included/apparent to the OP on testing then that would seem to be a deceptive practice and mean that materially the display model did not match the model delivered. 

As for 'bedding in'... it is a term I'm familiar with (to give something time to settle into a new place, originally from horticultural usage and nothing to do with beds used for sleeping)... but unless the OP was told at purchase that the bed would need some use before it matched the sample then again I would suggest they have a case. 

But more to the point, the OP rejected the item within 30 days - which they have a right to do, with the onus being on the seller to prove it's not faulty - so materially what we're arguing about is who is liable for the postage... 

prettyandfluffy

I suspect this may be in part due to the display beds having been tested, sat on & bounced on by numerous people which probably does a good job of "bedding in" and makes the display bed feel very different to its new counterpart.  There are several similar threads about sofas.
I think the OP will have difficulty in returning the bed as it isn't faulty or different to its description.  As a fellow back pain sufferer I always buy my mattress from someone who offers a 90 day "no quibble" return policy,  they may not be the cheapest but it's worth it for the peace of mind.

Grumpy_chap

This seems to hinge on whether the mattress received is alike to the store display mattress.
Then, whether it is reasonable for the customer to need to allow the mattress to "bed-in" for the initial period.


The questions around fitness for purpose may be more difficult to verify. 
The OP indicated they need a specific mattress because of their back issues. 
A normal "orthopaedic" mattress, the type that sales staff would by default indicate for "bad back", tends to be the firmest of the range.
The OP, for their back issues, requires a particularly soft mattress.
This means the "fitness for purpose" conversation would need to be a more involved conversation along the lines of "I need a mattress for my bad back and my Chiropractor advises that means a soft mattress".  Quite a bit more detailed than a normal sales staff conversation.


I wonder whether the OP can advise the actual bed / mattress specification they ordered?
Has the OP verified that the mattress is the same firmness rating as ordered?  (As per the labelling, not as per how it feels.)  

sheramber

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

RefluentBeans said:

We’ve seen it several times on this board of people not understanding the bedding in times/hardness of beds changing over time. 

I think this whole issue with beds and sofas hinges on what "Goods to match a model seen or examined" would mean with these kinds of goods. 

Should such items be available test in such a manner, should they be replaced sooner to be a closer match to what they are like when delivered, is it a fair representation given that is how the goods will (in most cases likely) end up being?

There is an exemption to the Goods to match a model seen or examined and that is any differences between the goods seen and the goods delivered to the consumer which are brought to the consumer's attention, perhaps these bed and sofa stores just need clearer information about how the goods are until they've softened up through use.

In terms of OP's bad back, "Goods to be fit for particular purpose" relates to the consumer simply making it known the goods are for a specific purpose, OP merely mentioning they have a bad back and need a mattress to assist in comfortable sleeping could meet this. I agree the salesperson probably knows naff all about bad backs but this falls within the category that rarely occurs, declining a sale and letting the consumer find a place that can meet their specific needs. 

But the OP requires a 'soft' mattress for his bad back.

My mother needed a very firm ( hard) mattress for her bad back. It was so hard my arm went numb with the pressure  when I slept on it.

My DIL has a bad back and needs a firm mattress.

So , just having a bad back does not appear to define the correct type of mattress needed.

In the OP's position I would have been searching out  the same make of bed I already had.

madaboutspots

Many thanks for the replies, particularly the ones that are centered around giving assistance in the legal aspects that I was requesting. ArbitraryRandom you've been particularly helpful - thank you.

This post has divided opinion and the discussion around firmness levels and any "bedding in period" is of course very subjective. The response in writing now that it has come from the store has been very interesting. They are now suggesting that the display model was put out in store within days of our initial visit so the differences should be immeasurable. My hubby has stated that he's never slept on such a firm mattress in his life. As we're both in our 50's we do have some experience of sleeping on various beds and for buying beds. Never have we experienced such a marked difference in the display model and the received one. It's impossible to convey here how different the received one is, or just how firm it is but in all my years, I've never had a bed wake me from sleep because it was so uncomfortable/hard - until now.

When we visited the store we went to great lengths to explain that it was important to get the bed right because of my bad back - not that we expected the staff to guide or advise in what was right. We spent quite a considerable time trying various beds and discussing their structural make up to ensure we had the knowledge to make our own decision based on my needs. At no point was the issue of "bedding in" raised, despite our numerous questions and we asked if we had covered everything and were assured that we had in fact more than covered all possible queries.

When the bed arrived, the delivery guys turned up several hours early which meant we were still removing the old bed to make space. The delivery guys wanted us very much out the way until the entire bed was put together and all the packaging removed. I asked if I should/could check everything before they left and they made it clear they were in a rush and just wanted a signature for delivery, nothing more.

We made the bed, including putting on a thick and woolen mattress topper before laying on the bed. Possibly a mistake but by this time the shop would have argued the item was "soiled" and unreturnable as a result but given all the packaging was removed before we got to "try it" I fail to see that there was anything we could have done that wouldn't have rendered it likewise. 

When I called the store a couple of days following delivery I was extremely disappointed with the attitude of the person that took my call. I explained that the bed was rock hard and without asking a single thing about my order, who I was, what I'd ordered or bothering to check if the correct item had been ordered/delivered, I was told that it might take a couple of months of sleeping on the bed for it to soften up. My husband visited the store later the same day to try to get them to understand the breadth of difference between what we'd tried in store and what was delivered.

The store have continued to be unhelpful and disinterested in the entire matter. They sent someone to our house to "check" what we had but even he didn't have any details about what we'd ordered and didn't check if the correct bed had been ordered or delivered. His main interest centered around convincing us that we simply had to put up with the bed regardless of comfort level. It wasn't technically faulty - it's a bed, that isn't in dispute. Their job was done and we needed to shut up and put up. I'm not paraphrasing - I'm relaying our impression of his and the store's attitude about the issue.

As a result of the poor product delivered (in regards meeting our requirements and/or being like the model tried/tested in store) we lost patience so looked to see what our rights are. We found the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (not my initial mistake of something from the 70's) and started the process of exercising our right to choose to refuse the goods as they are not fit for their intended purpose. We wrote to the store explaining this and I sought clarity here, in case I was far off the mark or had missed anything.

We have contacted our credit card company and explained in full, the issues. We've written formally to the store explaining the extent of the issue and our stance. The store's response was poor. They dated their letter for a date in the future, misquoted a clear statement in our letter to the point of reversing the point (x person did not explain became you agree x person told you this), referenced the delivery date incorrectly and more. They included a bed buyer's guide for our reference which is a guide, not a legal document but was interesting because it comes from the National Bed Federation who recommend many stores and this has highlighted that the store we shopped at isn't one of these! So embarrassing for them that they've brought our attention to this particular point while they continually show a lack of customer care and ignore our reference to the legal aspects of our claim.

We are currently sleeping on an air bed purchased following the dissatisfactory response from the store at the first stages of this debacle. The only location we have available for the air bed is our lounge/diner. The bedroom is taken over with the new/delivered bed and we have nowhere else to put that. This fact has also been made clear to the store and we did request they collect the bed, if nothing else - until the issues could be resolved. They refused. So for over 2 weeks we've slept in the lounge/diner - ensuring that their bed remains as pristine as is feasible. This made Christmas and New Year challenging, makes sleeping disrupted thanks to the dogs thinking us having a sleep over in their room at night means bed invasion is welcome and changes the way most of the house can be used. Any semblance of a lay-in has gone. My recent flu leaving me bed ridden for over a week was more challenging because my husband had no other room to sit in while I was sick so tried to be quiet and keep the dogs at one end of the room while I tried to sleep and recover. None of this is anything we're trying to "claim" for. We're not looking for compensation for the inconvenience or change of use of our home and we're not asking the store to pay for the air bed which was only purchased as a result of the product not being as expected. It doesn't leave us much patience though for the store's position.

We are delivering our next letter by hand today to the store. In it we give reference to the legislation quoted - many thanks again for this, I had the bones of it but it's great to have the detail and be able to provide the store with the location for the information. Our credit card company will of course take time to look into this matter (at least 4 weeks they say) and (hopefully) resolve it on our behalf. In the meantime, we have urged (almost begged) the store to arrange collection because our only other alternative is to hire a van and deliver it to them which of course risks damaging it in the process. We have been clear that if they force us into this position we will take the upmost care of their item but accept no responsibility for any incidental damage to it. Safer for them to collect their own goods really. Certainly our letter clearly states (in red and bold) that it's a "letter before action" so if they haven't responded to arrange collection within 7 days, we will return it with the risk of damage being theirs alone and without conversing with them again prior to doing so. The costs should be recoverable thanks to 20.8 of the legislation making this point clear but no doubt we'll have to file at the small claims court to recover these costs. If they force us down this route we may feel less tolerant about all the inconvenience at home over the period we've lived as if in a bedsit. This might result in our claim including the distress, change in living conditions, inability to use our bedroom for it's main purpose and maybe even the cost of the air bed.

Oh before anyone asks why we aren't now using the old bed - I'm way too organised for my own good and had booked the council to collect this the day after the new bed was delivered and they were incredibly efficient in doing this - at 07:30 the next morning... after it had been rained on all night at the end of our drive. So that's not an option - not that we'd have anywhere to put it of course!

Maybe you've read this far or perhaps you lost interest some pages back but whichever, perhaps this answers some of the queries/opinions put forward. Comfort is absolutely a subjective issue but when it comes to buying something as important as a bed where we spend so much of any 24 hour period, ideally resting/sleeping, it's only fair and reasonable that when a store advertises and displays something for sale, they provide something similar enough that the 2 are recognisable as the same or similar. That has not been the case in this instance and the store we purchased this item from have not looked to reassure, check details, provide customer service or show any level of care at any stage. 

The lesson? Be VERY careful where you shop!

Because it may be useful to some - now or at some later time - I will update this post once we've got to a resolution, whatever that is and however long it takes. ArbitraryRandom - our gratitude to your no-nonsense and informative post is immeasurable.

Oh and the "he" (me) is a "she" - not that it really matters to anyone other than myself and my hubby.

Thanks

Spots 

screech_78

OP, where did you purchase from? 

I gather this was an in store purchase and if so, there is no automatic right to return (unless their policy allows) unless faulty. At this stage, you’re going to have to commission a report which either confirms you haven’t been given what you ordered or that it’s faulty. I can’t see you getting anywhere without this. 

It’s true that mattresses have a settlement period and it’s usually a few weeks. The retailer I work for offers a 60 night sleep trial and given the issues you have with your back, I do wonder why you didn’t purchase from somewhere that does this as there’s loads of these around now. You wouldn’t have slept on the mattress in store, only tried it out and so wouldn’t ever know if it was really suitable for your back. I do think this is something you should think about in future. I think it’s going to be a battle though and you’re going to need to get some evidence together to prove your case. 

ArbitraryRandom

screech_78 said:

OP, where did you purchase from? 

I gather this was an in store purchase and if so, there is no automatic right to return (unless their policy allows) unless faulty. At this stage, you’re going to have to commission a report which either confirms you haven’t been given what you ordered or that it’s faulty. I can’t see you getting anywhere without this. 

Yes, if you could tell us who it was so we could check the T&Cs that would be helpful - you could also check reviews to see if other people have had the same issue with this model (which isn't conclusive, but it would help with the comprehensive picture you need to paint). 

If you do go for an independent report then if it's in your favour you can add the cost to your claim... I'm just not sure how it would work given the comparison is against a store model so you would ideally want the independent evaluator to go into the store to carry out the comparison, which would be reasonably non-standard. 

Thinking outside the box re objective 'proof' and (if you can still access the store model!) you could do something like put a known weight on the store model and take a picture of how much it compresses then put the same weight on your own bed to evidence the difference? If for example you sitting with flat feet on the store model and there's a noticeable difference in the amount of compression at the edge... 

madaboutspots

The store is a local independent which is well thought of locally we were told. (Sigh) …. But now we’ve delved it seems only when they get things right. Customers are vocal online about how poorly they respond to complaints. I know, we should have been more thorough. Damned hindsight. 

An independent report which included comparison with the store model given it’s been on display for several months now (at least) would only demonstrate that it can soften up over time. My point is that it’s so rock hard that it can’t be slept on (by us) to get this process started.

Had the store been more helpful we would have asked if the manufacturer could be liaised with to do any of the softening up process using machinery at their premises. They must surely have some way they test these beds themselves to ensure they actually do this? But as the relationship with the store broke down so badly and so rapidly and all trust has gone (and they remain immovable in their refusal to assist) then I’ve little/no confidence this could be amicably achieved. So much is trust based. If they took the item back for some softening process what’s to say they won’t just get the staff jumping up and down on it for a few weeks. I’m exaggerating my point re trust to some degree to make the point. They have had their person who visited here lay directly on the mattress for his own comparison but then rendered the item soiled so they’re unable to resell it - despite us not doing the same - mattress protector etc. 

it seems to me that whatever happens from here is very much he said/she said and opinion on the bed’s current softness levels/comfort. The store staff can’t even agree on what they themselves have said. The guy that came here accepted it’s hard but insisted it will soften. Said the one on display had been there for some time. The manager that’s written in response since says their guy said there was no discernible difference when he tried it and the store one which was soft and very comfortable when tried had only been on display a matter or days/hours. 

The letter seems to be trying to be clever in their approach by suggesting the display was only there since mid Oct. We purchased 27th but know we tried the display one at least 2 weeks before. We went away to decorate the bedroom before placing the order - and to think about the purchase. It was I feel sure but am unable to prove, more than 2 weeks between the dates.