IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including number plates, reference numbers and QR codes (which may reveal vehicle information when scanned).
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Permit at work VCS DCB Legal court claim

Options
1568101118

Comments

  • Kitkat8
    Kitkat8 Posts: 89 Forumite
    10 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Thankyou I will quote Estoppel and ask them to combine.
    Here is the email they have sent me today in response to the email sent asking for breakdown of costs:

    'We write in response to your correspondence received in our office dated 18/07/2024.

    We now respond to the same as follows.

    The interest is 8% on the inital amount owed, added daily from the date the Claim has been issued. The end date would be until Judgment has been entered or payment made.

    In accordance with the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice, where the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) becomes overdue and before Court proceedings have commenced, a reasonable sum may be added for the debt recovery fees. The correct recovery fees have been added and will not be removed.

    You now have until 20/08/2024 to respond to the Court documentation or make payment of £262.12. Failure to do either will result in judgment being entered against you.'


    So more threatening basically...So do i quote estoppel as a foreword in the defence and then leave it as is but change the dates and content of the response for this claim?

  • Kitkat8
    Kitkat8 Posts: 89 Forumite
    10 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Also hilarious because the company is an IPC member not a BPA member...
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,611 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Kitkat8 said:
    Also hilarious because the company is an IPC member not a BPA member...
    That's good!

    Add that extra thing to this defence and copy the usual wording from other defences about cause of action estoppel.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Kitkat8
    Kitkat8 Posts: 89 Forumite
    10 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    I've had this email this morning from DCB Legal.

    'We note your claim that you have a leasehold agreement and permit that allows you to park on the site. Please provide us with a copy of your leasehold agreement and valid permit within 7 days of this email for the matter to be reviewed further.

    Failure to respond may result in your supporting evidence not being considered. Should you be unsure of your position, you may wish to seek your own independent legal advice.'

    I dont have a copy of the leasehold agreement as this is for the organisation I work for not individuals. I could request t but I doubt they would provide it within 7 days honestly.


  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,611 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 25 July 2024 at 11:34AM
    Request a copy for you to include with your later WS.  Send DCB a copy of the permit.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Kitkat8
    Kitkat8 Posts: 89 Forumite
    10 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Changes i've made to the 2nd defence:

    Preliminary:

    3. In their response dated 24th July 2024, the claimant failed to provide the requested breakdown. Instead, the claimant only provided the following information:

    ‘The interest is 8% on the inital amount owed, added daily from the date the Claim has been issued. The end date would be until Judgment has been entered or payment made.

    In accordance with the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice, where the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) becomes overdue and before Court proceedings have commenced, a reasonable sum may be added for the debt recovery fees. The correct recovery fees have been added and will not be removed.’

    4. The defendant would like to take this opportunity to point out that the Claimant is not a member of the BPA but the IPC and so should not be following BPA Code of practice but IPC Code of practice.

    (Paragraphs 5-8 remain the same as previous defence)

    9. After further reviewing I would like to also highlight that in addition this claim is Cause of Action estoppel.

    10. Being legally represented, the Claimant knows, or should know, that by detaching or allowing to remain detached, elements of alleged debts and issuing separate claims, each which rely upon essentially duplicate particulars and facts, is an abuse of the civil litigation process.  

    11. This Claimant has issued two claims relating to parking charges for same carpark and parking incidents within one month.
    Claim number XXXXX - relates to PCN issued on (Date issued).
    Claim number XXXXX - relates to a PCN issued on the (Date issued), relying on the same facts.

    12. In Arnold v National Westminster Bank plc [1991] 3 All ER 41 the court noted that cause of action estoppel “…applies where a cause of action in a second action is identical to a cause of action in the first, the latter having been between the same parties or their privies and having involved the same subject matter.”

    13. In Henderson -v- Henderson [1843] 67 ER 313 the court noted the following:
    (i) when a matter becomes subject to litigation, the parties are required to advance their whole case;
    (ii) the Court will not permit the same parties to re-open the same subject of litigation regarding matters which should have been advanced in the earlier litigation, but were not owing to negligence, inadvertence, or error;
    (iii) this bar applies to all matters, both those on which the Court determined in the original litigation and those which would have been advanced if the party in question had exercised ''reasonable diligence''.


    This is all under the 'preliminary matter' before 'the facts known to the defendant'


  • LDast
    LDast Posts: 2,496 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Kitkat8 said:

    The interest is 8% on the inital amount owed, added daily from the date the Claim has been issued. The end date would be until Judgment has been entered or payment made.

    So, in the claim they have shown an amount of interest. According to them, that sum has been calculated from the issue date of the claim to an unknown date in the future. ??? A prime example of the intellectual malnourishment of the people who work for these scammers.

    I believe that all this would be unnecessary if the simple short defence had been used. They would have been ordered to fully comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a) and provide the necessary clarity as per the order, which would have included (but not limited to):
    For the avoidance of doubt, the further particulars of claim must set out a precise calculation of the claim for statutory interest up to the date of issue to include the date interest started running.


  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 24,667 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    All paragraphs require a number.  You seem to keep flipping between "the defendant" and "I". Defences - third person, witness statements -first person. 
  • Kitkat8
    Kitkat8 Posts: 89 Forumite
    10 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Thankyou I have edited.

    Here is my full 2nd defence:

    The template has been used so these are just the bits i've added:

    9. After further reviewing I would like to also highlight that in addition this claim is Cause of Action estoppel.

    10. Being legally represented, the Claimant knows, or should know, that by detaching or allowing to remain detached, elements of alleged debts and issuing separate claims, each which rely upon essentially duplicate particulars and facts, is an abuse of the civil litigation process.  

    11. This Claimant has issued two claims relating to parking charges for same carpark and parking incidents within one month.
    Claim number
    L8KF5F52 - relates to PCN issued on 19th December 2023.
    Claim number
    L8KF8N27 - relates to a PCN issued on the 22nd December 2023, relying on the same facts.

    12. In Arnold v National Westminster Bank plc [1991] 3 All ER 41 the court noted that cause of action estoppel “…applies where a cause of action in a second action is identical to a cause of action in the first, the latter having been between the same parties or their privies and having involved the same subject matter.”

    13. In Henderson -v- Henderson [1843] 67 ER 313 the court noted the following:
    (i) when a matter becomes subject to litigation, the parties are required to advance their whole case;
    (ii) the Court will not permit the same parties to re-open the same subject of litigation regarding matters which should have been advanced in the earlier litigation, but were not owing to negligence, inadvertence, or error;
    (iii) this bar applies to all matters, both those on which the Court determined in the original litigation and those which would have been advanced if the party in question had exercised ''reasonable diligence''.


  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,611 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 26 July 2024 at 4:05PM
    This makes no grammatical sense:

    9. After further reviewing I would like to also highlight that in addition this claim is Cause of Action estoppel.

    should be:

    9. Further, the Defendant also takes the point that this claim is a near-duplicate of an earlier claim. The doctrine of causeof action estoppel applies. This second claim should be struck out by the court's own volition, using its case management powers.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 351.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.2K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 244.2K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 599.3K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 177K Life & Family
  • 257.6K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.