Octopus Intelligent Go - Smart Charging Schedule & 3 PIN EV Charger

peter3hg

MWT said:

peter3hg said:

This makes no sense. Octopus are under no obligation to charge your car to the target amount, finish at the target time or offer any cheap periods outside of the 11:30-05:30 window. If they are bothered by "gaming" then they can simply not offer these additional cheap periods; it is entirely in their control within the current tariff structure.

That isn't a solution, the whole basis for the tariff is for flexible control of large loads by Octopus so they can act in support of grid stabilization and profit from that involvement.

That requires that they are able to control loads at any time of day, not just within a fixed period as the 23:30-05:30 will often not be the cheapest/most profitable time to do it...

That doesn't go against what I said. My point was there is no need for Octopus to change the basis of the current tariff to counteract "gaming" because they are already entirely in control of the impact of people trying to game the system.

MWT

peter3hg said:

MWT said:

peter3hg said:

This makes no sense. Octopus are under no obligation to charge your car to the target amount, finish at the target time or offer any cheap periods outside of the 11:30-05:30 window. If they are bothered by "gaming" then they can simply not offer these additional cheap periods; it is entirely in their control within the current tariff structure.

That isn't a solution, the whole basis for the tariff is for flexible control of large loads by Octopus so they can act in support of grid stabilization and profit from that involvement.

That requires that they are able to control loads at any time of day, not just within a fixed period as the 23:30-05:30 will often not be the cheapest/most profitable time to do it...

That doesn't go against what I said. My point was there is no need for Octopus to change the basis of the current tariff to counteract "gaming" because they are already entirely in control of the impact of people trying to game the system.

The best solution from the Octopus perspective might be to remove the core 23:30-05:30 low-rate period, rather than limiting the periods outside of that core, and I'm sure that isn't something we want to happen, but as they continue to add to their ability to control batteries as well as EV's and ASHP, I imagine that is where this will end.

Octopus are not totally in control of the impact of what people are doing to game the system as for example, with the EVSE integrations  they do not know that the EV is already full until it is too late and they no longer have the ability to consume what they expected in the slot...

Ultimately though the flexibility we currently have is likely to be impacted as a result of people exploiting it rather than behaving reasonably. 

Petriix

It goes both ways: the current Octopus app doesn't allow me to tell them what I actually want so I have to approximate using the parameters they provide.

Suppose I'm planning a long trip leaving at some point between the afternoon and evening, there's no way of asking for a charge to finish at that time so I have to set 4am. If I put the real figure of adding 20% (Zappi integration asks for % to add) then it will probably just schedule between 2-4am. If I put 90% then I might get a few cheaper slots before.

At other times I might want a top up without actually planning to go out at any point. I want to see if there are any cheaper slots available but I'm otherwise flexible with when it charges. Sometimes I need to guarantee the battery will balance by ensuring there's a clear 3 hours after hitting 100%. Often I'll see what kind of schedule it sets and then turn off smart charging if it doesn't come up with something that meets my needs.

The great thing about it is that it's effectively a live trial where Octopus adapt their product based on real world usage. We can only show them what we actually want and see how they adjust to it.

powerful_Rogue

Heads up - gaming the tariff

It has been reported on the MyEnergi forum by a staff member that as a 'fairly high priority' Octopus are making changes at a tariff level due to the number of people 'gaming' the tariff.

What these changes are is unknown.

So if you were one of those reducing charge rates to extend the number of off peak slots, setting daytime schedule end times to force off peak, leaving it set to ADD 100% when you only need 20% (car already on 80%) etc then well done. Give yourself a pat on the back. It looks like you may well have forced Octopus to introduce changes to the detriment of everyone.

There were screen shots from the staff member, but they have since been removed.

powerful_Rogue

MeteredOut said:

MWT said:

MeteredOut said:

Too often online, "apparently" means "I read it on facebook". Do you have a reference for that?

Not from Facebook, but from one of their integration partners.

No detail provided simply that there were some changes on the way, so we all have to wait for further details.

Thanks - will be interesting to see what they do, as I can already see how it can be gamed.

For example, based on the current charge in my EV, I can change the charge limit and ready by time to have Octopus give me a smart charging period between 3-4pm this afternoon, and I could then plan other household loads for that time (I've not).

Just because it's planned between that time, doesn't mean it's going to happen. You need to keep an eye on your input from the grid to actually see if it's taking place.

MeteredOut

powerful_Rogue said:

OMeteredOut said:

MWT said:

MeteredOut said:

Too often online, "apparently" means "I read it on facebook". Do you have a reference for that?

Not from Facebook, but from one of their integration partners.

No detail provided simply that there were some changes on the way, so we all have to wait for further details.

Thanks - will be interesting to see what they do, as I can already see how it can be gamed.

For example, based on the current charge in my EV, I can change the charge limit and ready by time to have Octopus give me a smart charging period between 3-4pm this afternoon, and I could then plan other household loads for that time (I've not).

Just because it's planned between that time, doesn't mean it's going to happen. You need to keep an eye on your input from the grid to actually see if it's taking place.

How would one do that? I’m not sure what you mean by “keep an eye on your input from the grid”? What would tell me the rate Octopus would be charging?

I did set up a charge yesterday (for overnight) and the smart charging scheduled some of it outside the standard off-peak 6 hours. I’ll be disgruntled if it turns out they changed their mind whilst I was sleeping.

MeteredOut

And this from the Octopus FAQ is very explicit in stating the off peak price will be used once it’s been set as a smart charge, so I’d be interested why you think it could be otherwise.

MWT

MeteredOut said:

I did set up a charge yesterday (for overnight) and the smart charging scheduled some of it outside the standard off-peak 6 hours. I’ll be disgruntled if it turns out they changed their mind whilst I was sleeping.

Prepare to be disgruntled at some point then as the allocated slots can change at any point before the slot starts.

It doesn't happen often, but it certainly can happen if they have an opportunity to respond to a grid balancing event for example.

MeteredOut said:

And this from the Octopus FAQ is very explicit in stating the off peak price will be used once it’s been set as a smart charge, so I’d be interested why you think it could be otherwise.

That isn't saying what you think it says...

It isn't saying there will be no changes in a schedule, it is just saying that whenever they cause a controlled charge to take place it will be at the low-rate.

MeteredOut

Ah, ok, so the slots can change, but whenever the slots are, they will be off peak. Yes, makes sense.

MWT

Here is a great example of why Octopus need to be in full control and not just letting charging take place in the 'low-rate' period...

The requested 55% could be delivered over 5.5 hours fully within the standard low-rate period, but Octopus have decided it would be better to spread it out to include 2 hours outside that period...