Energy companies - not afraid of the Energy Ombudsman?

Vizard

Hi All

We have a small business with multiple sites.

Last year, a broker called Bionic switched our services to EDF, who were awful. They ignored readings and sent us bonkers bills - tens of thousands of pounds, when they should have been a few thousand. They were impossible to contact.

We spent a lot of time putting together an Ombudsman complaint. Days in fact. The Ombudsman found in our favour and ordered that EDF must pay us £100. It cost us many, many times that to complain.

We are now with Eon Next. We send them readings, they don't apply them, and when we ask for a refund of our credit balances they say the readings are out of date. We provide more, they don't apply them, we ask for our credit balances back...they say the readings are out of date.

We raised a CEO office complaint with EON Next. Eventually someone contacted us, didn't resolve the issue and said "do you want a deadlock letter?"

So, it seems to me that Energy companies will offer a deadlock letter very swiftly, so that they don't need to deal with complaints, in the knowledge that sanctions from the Ombudsman are trivial.

Is the Energy Ombudsman just a patsy for the energy companies, or are we doing it wrong?

MultiFuelBurner

If they were a patsy they wouldn't award on your favour and tell the supplier to sort it out.

Annoying as this must be perhaps chose your supplier more carefully. Have you consider Octopus for business? They still come out top with residential supplier so perhaps a move to them could be your final move?

QrizB

Vizard said:

Is the Energy Ombudsman just a patsy for the energy companies, or are we doing it wrong?

You're doing it wrong.

Vizard said:

... in the knowledge that sanctions from the Ombudsman are trivial.

The Ombudsman isn't there to sanction enery companies. They're there to provide an independent complaints process.

Vizard

So if the complaint is "you've messed up, here are our quantifiable losses, we want QrizB said:

Vizard said:

Is the Energy Ombudsman just a patsy for the energy companies, or are we doing it wrong?

You're doing it wrong.

Vizard said:

... in the knowledge that sanctions from the Ombudsman are trivial.

The Ombudsman isn't there to sanction enery companies. They're there to provide an independent complaints process.

You say that, but they are not able (or are unwilling) to rule that an energy company must meet the costs incurred to a customer. Our costs, across twenty-six accounts - were in the order of £6k. Not the £100 awarded.

A complaints process should involve putting right the problem, should it not?

ArbitraryRandom

How did those loses come to pass and how did you evidence them? 

If you have evidence of material qualifiable losses incurred solely because of the supplier's mishandling of your account you could always take them to small claims. 

Vizard

ArbitraryRandom said:

How did those loses come to pass and how did you evidence them? 

If you have evidence of material qualifiable losses incurred solely because of the supplier's mishandling of your account you could always take them to small claims. 

To give you some examples:

EDF and the broker not completing paperwork that they should have.

Asking us to provide readings and then failing to use them.

Sending sensitive correspondence to site addresses, despite being quite clearly told not to do it, which we then had to recover. Then doing the same thing over and over again.

Many, many hours on the phone trying to resolve trivial issues.

EDF not recording previous transactions, meaning that each conversation had to be repeated.

Imagine the basic nonsense that we all know energy companies are capable of. Multiply that by 26.

I have considered using the Ombudsman's decision to bring a small claim, using it as supporting evidence.

QrizB

Vizard said:

Is the Energy Ombudsman just a patsy for the energy companies, or are we doing it wrong?

You're doing it wrong.

Vizard said:

... in the knowledge that sanctions from the Ombudsman are trivial.

The Ombudsman isn't there to sanction enery companies. They're there to provide an independent complaints process.

You say that, but they are not able (or are unwilling) to rule that an energy company must meet the costs incurred to a customer. Our costs, across twenty-six accounts - were in the order of £6k.

See:

ArbitraryRandom said:

How did those loses come to pass and how did you evidence them? 
If you have evidence of material qualifiable losses incurred solely because of the supplier's mishandling of your account you could always take them to small claims. 

That's exactly what I was going to say.

If these losses are as a result of your supplier failing to meet their contractual obligations, you can take them to court.

I'm surprised that you need this forum to tell you this. As a business owner with 26 sites, I'd have expected your own lawyers to point this out to you.

Vizard

This forum is free. Our solicitors are hundreds per hour plus VAT. We only ever engage them when absolutely necessary.

Moreover, my question was more a general musing - is the EO fit for purpose?

ArbitraryRandom

Vizard said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

How did those loses come to pass and how did you evidence them? 

If you have evidence of material qualifiable losses incurred solely because of the supplier's mishandling of your account you could always take them to small claims. 

To give you some examples:

EDF and the broker not completing paperwork that they should have.

Asking us to provide readings and then failing to use them.

Sending sensitive correspondence to site addresses, despite being quite clearly told not to do it, which we then had to recover. Then doing the same thing over and over again.

Many, many hours on the phone trying to resolve trivial issues.

EDF not recording previous transactions, meaning that each conversation had to be repeated.

Imagine the basic nonsense that we all know energy companies are capable of. Multiply that by 26.

I have considered using the Ombudsman's decision to bring a small claim, using it as supporting evidence.

Okay, that's a lot of frustrating and inconvenient things - but I asked you to explain how you evidenced your losses to the ombudsman (aka on what basis did you work it out to be £6k of losses or is it a figure that just felt about right given the inconvenience?)

For example, if you wanted to claim for the cost of phone calls to resolve the issue, then did you provide a phone bill with the relevant calls highlighted and details of the rate your phone company charges per minute? 

Vizard

ArbitraryRandom said:

Vizard said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

How did those loses come to pass and how did you evidence them? 

If you have evidence of material qualifiable losses incurred solely because of the supplier's mishandling of your account you could always take them to small claims. 

To give you some examples:

EDF and the broker not completing paperwork that they should have.

Asking us to provide readings and then failing to use them.

Sending sensitive correspondence to site addresses, despite being quite clearly told not to do it, which we then had to recover. Then doing the same thing over and over again.

Many, many hours on the phone trying to resolve trivial issues.

EDF not recording previous transactions, meaning that each conversation had to be repeated.

Imagine the basic nonsense that we all know energy companies are capable of. Multiply that by 26.

I have considered using the Ombudsman's decision to bring a small claim, using it as supporting evidence.

Okay, that's a lot of frustrating and inconvenient things - but I asked you to explain how you evidenced your losses to the ombudsman (aka on what basis did you work it out to be £6k of losses or is it a figure that just felt about right given the inconvenience?)

For example, if you wanted to claim for the cost of phone calls to resolve the issue, then did you provide a phone bill with the relevant calls highlighted and details of the rate your phone company charges per minute? 

For example the bill from our agent who went around the sites picking up correspondence.

Records of time spent on calls.

Record of the cost to send out a meter reader.

There was also an element of "X hours at Y rate" of course.

masonic

Vizard said:

This forum is free. Our solicitors are hundreds per hour plus VAT. We only ever engage them when absolutely necessary.

Moreover, my question was more a general musing - is the EO fit for purpose?

You seem to be confusing the Energy Ombudsman with the regulator, Ofgem. One is there to adjudicate complaints and the other is responsible for companies adhering to regulatory standards. Unlike the Financial Ombudsman, the Energy Ombudsman's decisions do not have the power of a court order. But they do have the power of enforcement themselves. If you wish to take court action, the merits of your complaint would need to be considered again in court. If you take it down the small claims track, you would not normally be able to recover your legal costs beyond the statutory fees. The court will likely not do anything to punish the energy firm or award 'damages'.

You should consider the value of your time as well as that of your solicitors in deciding how to move forward from here. They could probably have saved you some. Though I must say a business crowdsourcing its legal strategy from an internet forum of lay consumers is a new one on me.