Energy companies - not afraid of the Energy Ombudsman?

Vizard

masonic said:

Vizard said:

This forum is free. Our solicitors are hundreds per hour plus VAT. We only ever engage them when absolutely necessary.

Moreover, my question was more a general musing - is the EO fit for purpose?

You seem to be confusing the Energy Ombudsman with the regulator, Ofgem. One is there to adjudicate complaints and the other is responsible for companies adhering to regulatory standards. Unlike the Financial Ombudsman, the Energy Ombudsman's decisions do not have the power of a court order. But they do have the power of enforcement themselves. If you wish to take court action, the merits of your complaint would need to be considered again in court. If you take it down the small claims track, you would not normally be able to recover your costs beyond the statutory fees. The court will likely not do anything to punish the energy firm or award 'damages'.

You should consider the value of your time as well as that of your solicitors. They could probably have saved you some.

AFAIK Ofgem doesn't deal with consumers.

Our sols may well be involved eventually because EDF maintains we still owe them a six-figure sum - we don't. 

ArbitraryRandom

Vizard said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Vizard said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

How did those loses come to pass and how did you evidence them? 

If you have evidence of material qualifiable losses incurred solely because of the supplier's mishandling of your account you could always take them to small claims. 

To give you some examples:

EDF and the broker not completing paperwork that they should have.

Asking us to provide readings and then failing to use them.

Sending sensitive correspondence to site addresses, despite being quite clearly told not to do it, which we then had to recover. Then doing the same thing over and over again.

Many, many hours on the phone trying to resolve trivial issues.

EDF not recording previous transactions, meaning that each conversation had to be repeated.

Imagine the basic nonsense that we all know energy companies are capable of. Multiply that by 26.

I have considered using the Ombudsman's decision to bring a small claim, using it as supporting evidence.

Okay, that's a lot of frustrating and inconvenient things - but I asked you to explain how you evidenced your losses to the ombudsman (aka on what basis did you work it out to be £6k of losses or is it a figure that just felt about right given the inconvenience?)

For example, if you wanted to claim for the cost of phone calls to resolve the issue, then did you provide a phone bill with the relevant calls highlighted and details of the rate your phone company charges per minute? 

For example the bill from our agent who went around the sites picking up correspondence.

Records of time spent on calls.

Record of the cost to send out a meter reader.

There was also an element of "X hours at Y rate" of course.

You generally can't claim for your own time/that of staff you already employ in either small claims or the ombudsman* - the same as the supplier wouldn't be able to charge you for their staff time if you had caused the issue... 
 
Re the other costs, did you submit the invoice from your agent to the ombudsman in your case file?
Re the time spent on calls, you likely can't claim for the time as above, but did you submit your phone bills in your case file? 


*for anyone finding this via google, aside from consequential losses such as if you have had to take time off work unpaid to resolve an issue and you can document there wasn't another option that would mitigate your losses. 

Vizard

Yes invoices sent to Ombudsman, no we didn't submit the phone bills.

ArbitraryRandom

masonic said:

The court will likely not do anything to punish the energy firm or award 'damages'.

The courts can and will award 'damages'- if those damages can be evidenced and directly apportioned - which is where the OP might struggle...

I would certainly say that if they feel they have a strong case for £6k of damages then it's worth a quick consultation with their solicitor. I wouldn't but, unlike the OP, I am not privy for the full details to judge the strength of the case. 

masonic

Vizard said:

AFAIK Ofgem doesn't deal with consumers.

That is correct, they are not consumer facing, but they will receive intelligence from other organisations, including the Energy Ombudsman about compliance. It is Ofgem's responsibility to investigate further should they deem it necessary.

ArbitraryRandom

Vizard said:

Yes invoices sent to Ombudsman, no we didn't submit the phone bills.

And in the Ombudsman's report, how did they refer to the invoice? 

masonic

ArbitraryRandom said:

masonic said:

The court will likely not do anything to punish the energy firm or award 'damages'.

The courts can and will award 'damages'- if those damages can be evidenced and directly apportioned - which is where the OP might struggle...

I would certainly say that if they feel they have a strong case for £6k of damages then it's worth a quick consultation with their solicitor. I wouldn't but, unlike the OP, I am not privy for the full details to judge the strength of the case. 

I think we are in agreement, I was referring to a punitive sum in excess of the direct losses.

Vizard

ArbitraryRandom said:

Vizard said:

Yes invoices sent to Ombudsman, no we didn't submit the phone bills.

And in the Ombudsman's report, how did they refer to the invoice? 

I don't remember honestly.

I do remember that EDF were supposed to write a letter saying sorry.

We did not accept the Ombudsman's ruling because we thought accepting £100 compensation might prejudice a future claim, if the matter became litigious.

Fun fact: EDF, despite being asked to amalgamate our accounts, billed them all separately. The complaint with them remains open, but they have not addressed it and our most recent response to them has received no reply. They have however passed our business details to (at the last count) seven different debt collection agencies. So we have been receiving calls, letters and emails from seven companies, regarding twenty-six accounts, at least once per week.

ArbitraryRandom

Vizard said:

EDF, despite being asked to amalgamate our accounts, billed them all separately. The complaint with them remains open, but they have not addressed it and our most recent response to them has received no reply. They have however passed our business details to (at the last count) seven different debt collection agencies. So we have been receiving calls, letters and emails from seven companies, regarding twenty-six accounts, at least once per week.

We did not accept the Ombudsman's ruling because we thought accepting £100 compensation might prejudice a future claim.

The easiest option there would be to contact the debt collection agencies and inform them that the debt is currently in dispute - at which point they should stop contacting you until the matter is resolved. 

By rejecting the Ombudsman's findings you have basically closed the case... and given you can't have two bites at the cherry, any future claims with the ombudsman will need to be 'substantially different' or will be automatically closed. 



https://www.energyombudsman.org/terms-of-reference/terms-of-reference-post-2015

If one was so inclined, they might suggest this is why someone who think they have a claim for £6k could be considered unwise for not spending a few hundred pounds talking to their solicitor before taking actions... 

ArbitraryRandom

Vizard said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Vizard said:

Yes invoices sent to Ombudsman, no we didn't submit the phone bills.

And in the Ombudsman's report, how did they refer to the invoice? 

I don't remember honestly.

Sorry, just seen you edited this - I'm going to guess (only a guess) that your invoice/statement didn't make it sufficiently clear that the costs were wholly due to the actions of the supplier - arguably you have an agent who you contract to visit your properties, so the presumption is that includes visiting your premises to collect correspondence if required. 

Edit: to be clear, I'm aware how you might be reading these posts and I'm not picking holes or intending to be critical - simply that if you decide to bring another case or take this further you need to be aware of the importance of your evidence, how you present it, and what you can/can't actually claim for...