Xmas Day Lunch cancellation. Refund rights?

400ixl

Maybe for one person, but the others it does not appear they have covid and have cancelled through a change of mind as they could still have gone.

Appreciate why they didn't go and hope the MIL has a speedy recovery.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

RefluentBeans said:

Why would this be an unfair term? 

You mean paying for the meal in full? 

RefluentBeans

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

RefluentBeans said:

Why would this be an unfair term? 

You mean paying for the meal in full? 

So ordering fast food and paying before the food is an unfair term? Nothing wrong with restaurants asking for prepayment. I don’t really see how it’s an unfair term?

Emmia

I don't think the OP should get a refund at all. All but one of the party could have dined on Christmas Day but chose not to, for whatever reason.

It is unlikely given the timing the restaurant would have had walk in customers for the meals, and so food / staff were paid for by the restaurant in anticipation of the OPs group attending as planned. Whilst I'm sure that the MIL did have COVID (I hope she's recovering) from the restaurants perspective COVID is just one of many (baseless) excuses people might make for changing their mind, and wanting a refund...

In London it is very common for credit card details to be taken at the time of a booking a meal,  and fees levied for no shows, or if the cancellation takes place late. Sometimes, 7 days before is the cancellation period required for a charge not to be applied, but more usually it is 24 or 48 hour.

Recently I found myself in a situation where my dining companion went to A&E at the time we were supposed to be dining - to avoid the £30 a head charge the restaurant would have applied for a late cancellation I went to dinner alone - dining out was less pricey than the £60 charge.

Okell

I don't think it's a question of unfair terms.

I think the situation is more of an "ordinary" one as in:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

...the ordinary position applies meaning the hotel can retain either net costs or loss of profit but not both so you could ask them which they are seeking retain from the payment...

So the hotel is not legally entitled to retain the full cost, just their net cost OR their loss of profit.

But I fully understand the hotels pov that they should be entitled to keep the full cost as to them the liklihood of filling five places for Christmas Dinner on the day itself must be so low as to be considered zero, and they will think they are entitled to keep the full amount.  They won't appreciate or be of the view that they have incurred lower costs because the OP's party of five cancelled.

The OP needs to speak to the hotel and put this point to them, but I suspect they'll have an uphill struggle ahead of them unless they take it to court.  Even then I wouldn't like to assess what the hotel's loss of profit would be and how much a court would be likely to award the OP

ThumbRemote

Alderbank said:

I'm sorry to hear about your mother-in-law. Covid is unpleasant, I hope she is recovering well. If I had been your m-i-l I would have said to the family, 'Please, please don't let me spoil your enjoyment of Christmas Day. We'll all be together next Christmas. Here's £40 for another bottle of bubbly to toast absent friends.'

While the advice on this thread is generally good, this - and other similar comments saying the others could still have dined - are a bit silly. 

The OP states the mother-in-law was hospitalised. It's quite likely that eating was the last thing on their mind given their mother/grandmother had been taken into hospital 24 hours before. Certainly an enjoyable family meal out, with an empty chair where she should have been sitting, is not what most people would want in that situation.

Unless, of course, they are total sociopaths. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

RefluentBeans said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

RefluentBeans said:

Why would this be an unfair term? 

You mean paying for the meal in full? 

So ordering fast food and paying before the food is an unfair term? Nothing wrong with restaurants asking for prepayment. I don’t really see how it’s an unfair term?

Taking a pre-payment is no problem at all, retaining the whole pre-payment in the event the consumer fails to perform their obligations under the contract can be tested for fairness.  

TELLIT01

To be blunt, the reason for cancellation is irrelevant to the restaurant.  They have food already purchased and a table they have virtually no hope of 'selling' again.

Okell

Emmia said:

I don't think the OP should get a refund at all. All but one of the party could have dined on Christmas Day but chose not to, for whatever reason...

That was my initial reaction too - I thought it was unreasonable for everybody to cancel just because MiL was ill.  But the more I thought about it I decided that it was my view that was unreasonable as I didn't know enough about the family circumstances behind the meal to decide whether the MiL's illness was sufficient reason for everybody to call off or not.  So I'm willing to give the OP the benefit of the doubt there.

But even if the OP's party was using the MiL's illness as an excuse for a change of mind, it doesn't alter the legal position.  The hotel is entitled to either their costs or their loss of profit - not the full price.

Emmia said:

... In London it is very common for credit card details to be taken at the time of a booking a meal,  and fees levied for no shows, or if the cancellation takes place late. Sometimes, 7 days before is the cancellation period required for a charge not to be applied, but more usually it is 24 or 48 hour...

As has been said in other contexts on this board, the fact that certain commercial practices are commonplace (in London or elsewhere) doesn't necessarily make them lawful or enforceable by law...

Slinky

We were in a very nice hotel restaurant one Christmas day and a group of people turned up on spec asking if they had space. Some folk are not at all organised! They were turned away.