Plumber Charging Missed Call Out Fee Even Though I Was In The House?

user1977

Appliance_engineer said:

he's made every effort to contact the householder 

By his own admission, he hadn't in this case.

RefluentBeans

Appliance_engineer said:

You can all go on about the technical and legal aspects of this but in essence, a tradesman has gone to quote on a job, he's made every effort to contact the householder and his phone call was ignored.

He has had the expense and time taken to visit.  That needs to be reimbursed.  £30 is a very small amount of money and may be less than the costs of attending.

Banging on about the doorbell is just clutching at straws, and an excuse.

I have had the excuse of not hearing the door hundreds of times in my career. It's an easy one to use, but I always take a photo of the front door, I ring, knock, usually tap on the nearest window, and even go down the passageway to the back garden if accessible.  I then always ring any contact numbers before leaving a card, which I put through the letter box after knocking for a final time.

The OP should pay this small amount and be done with it.

My personal policy is that I charge a call-out charge on EVERY initial visit whether or not a job goes ahead or whether or not any quote is accepted. The charge is a visit charge to offset costs in money AND time in calling to a person's house. I don't work for nothing, but I don't charge to quote.

The £20 call-out charge is for travelling to a house for whatever reason, be it a quote or a repair, and if the customer isn't home, I always let them know that I will be charging another £20 to come back following a wasted visit, so the follow-up visit costs them £40.

If you tell customers there is a charge for call outs that they have to pay then that is different. The issue is that in this case the charge was applied after a failed attempt to visit. You cannot just apply charges when you want, and supporting that type of behaviour is a slippery slope to where customers are taken for a ride. £30 may not be s lot to you, to others it is. If your boiler is broken you can’t just not get it fixed and that £30 charge (which wasn’t agreed before) can be the difference between eating and not eating. 

Most places offer a free quotation service. This means that the offer is for a contractor to come out to view and quote the issue. If the person doesn’t take your quote, you can’t then charge them. Arguably the consumer should pay for the time and petrol wasted but that isn’t £30. 

The reason for consumer protection is because consumers are vulnerable, especially when there’s bad practices. It is well known that there’s a lot of cowboys in the contractor space, and personally I wouldn’t go for anyone who was going to charge me just for the pleasure of their time. Eroding consumer protections is a risky step, and ultimately as business owners you should incorporate the cost of doing business into your business plan. 

ArbitraryRandom

Appliance_engineer said:

You can all go on about the technical and legal aspects of this but in essence, a tradesman has gone to quote on a job, he's made every effort to contact the householder and his phone call was ignored.

He has had the expense and time taken to visit.  That needs to be reimbursed.  £30 is a very small amount of money and may be less than the costs of attending.

"In essence", the reason it costs more to hire a professional than the bloke down the pub is that you should be able to rely on the professional to do things properly... and that includes following the legal requirements when conducting business, not cutting corners or skipping things you think aren't important. 

No-one likes paperwork, but it's not like it's hard to give the customer some generic boilerplate when agreeing to come out, and if you don't do it then you lose the right to have your expenses reimbursed.

That said, as someone who tends to get trades in via word of mouth/referral, I'd apologise and pay.   

diinozzo

ArbitraryRandom said:

Appliance_engineer said:

You can all go on about the technical and legal aspects of this but in essence, a tradesman has gone to quote on a job, he's made every effort to contact the householder and his phone call was ignored.

He has had the expense and time taken to visit.  That needs to be reimbursed.  £30 is a very small amount of money and may be less than the costs of attending.

 
No-one likes paperwork, but it's not like it's hard to give the customer some generic boilerplate when agreeing to come out, and if you don't do it then you lose the right to have your expenses reimbursed.

That said, as someone who tends to get trades in via word of mouth/referral, I'd apologise and pay.   

So if for instance I have a river of water pouring down my stairs due to a water leak...an emergency situation...do I REALLY NEED at the insistence of  the plumber to see a hard copy of all their T&C's before they will attend? Not going to happen.

ArbitraryRandom

diinozzo said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Appliance_engineer said:

You can all go on about the technical and legal aspects of this but in essence, a tradesman has gone to quote on a job, he's made every effort to contact the householder and his phone call was ignored.

He has had the expense and time taken to visit.  That needs to be reimbursed.  £30 is a very small amount of money and may be less than the costs of attending.

 
No-one likes paperwork, but it's not like it's hard to give the customer some generic boilerplate when agreeing to come out, and if you don't do it then you lose the right to have your expenses reimbursed.

That said, as someone who tends to get trades in via word of mouth/referral, I'd apologise and pay.   

So if for instance I have a river of water pouring down my stairs due to a water leak...an emergency situation...do I REALLY NEED at the insistence of all the plumber to see a hard copy of their T&C's before they will attend? Not going to happen.

Which is why that's not what's required by the regs, which have an exemption for 'urgent' repairs AND don't require a hard copy be provided  

diinozzo

ArbitraryRandom said:

diinozzo said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Appliance_engineer said:

You can all go on about the technical and legal aspects of this but in essence, a tradesman has gone to quote on a job, he's made every effort to contact the householder and his phone call was ignored.

He has had the expense and time taken to visit.  That needs to be reimbursed.  £30 is a very small amount of money and may be less than the costs of attending.

 
No-one likes paperwork, but it's not like it's hard to give the customer some generic boilerplate when agreeing to come out, and if you don't do it then you lose the right to have your expenses reimbursed.

That said, as someone who tends to get trades in via word of mouth/referral, I'd apologise and pay.   

So if for instance I have a river of water pouring down my stairs due to a water leak...an emergency situation...do I REALLY NEED at the insistence of all the plumber to see a hard copy of their T&C's before they will attend? Not going to happen.

Which is why that's not what's required by the regs, which have an exemption for 'urgent' repairs AND don't require a hard copy be provided  

Who decides what's urgent?

ArbitraryRandom

diinozzo said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

diinozzo said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Appliance_engineer said:

You can all go on about the technical and legal aspects of this but in essence, a tradesman has gone to quote on a job, he's made every effort to contact the householder and his phone call was ignored.

He has had the expense and time taken to visit.  That needs to be reimbursed.  £30 is a very small amount of money and may be less than the costs of attending.

 
No-one likes paperwork, but it's not like it's hard to give the customer some generic boilerplate when agreeing to come out, and if you don't do it then you lose the right to have your expenses reimbursed.

That said, as someone who tends to get trades in via word of mouth/referral, I'd apologise and pay.   

So if for instance I have a river of water pouring down my stairs due to a water leak...an emergency situation...do I REALLY NEED at the insistence of all the plumber to see a hard copy of their T&C's before they will attend? Not going to happen.

Which is why that's not what's required by the regs, which have an exemption for 'urgent' repairs AND don't require a hard copy be provided  

Who decides what's urgent?

The Small Claims Court generally - which is where any civil dispute relating to contractual obligations would end up - based on the 'reasonableness test'; which is common in legislation as there's too many variables in the real world. 

I'd suggest a good ballpark would be anything that risks injury or significant damage to property if not repaired immediately (within 24 hours) - which ties in nicely with a landlord's exemption of the requirement to give notice for repairs.  

But realistically, in an age of smart phones, I'd be hard pressed to think of many situations where it's out and out 'unreasonable' for a professional to send a text message (which can either be saved as a draft or even sent automatically when a job is booked in)... 

diinozzo

ArbitraryRandom said:

diinozzo said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

diinozzo said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Appliance_engineer said:

You can all go on about the technical and legal aspects of this but in essence, a tradesman has gone to quote on a job, he's made every effort to contact the householder and his phone call was ignored.

He has had the expense and time taken to visit.  That needs to be reimbursed.  £30 is a very small amount of money and may be less than the costs of attending.

 
No-one likes paperwork, but it's not like it's hard to give the customer some generic boilerplate when agreeing to come out, and if you don't do it then you lose the right to have your expenses reimbursed.

That said, as someone who tends to get trades in via word of mouth/referral, I'd apologise and pay.   

So if for instance I have a river of water pouring down my stairs due to a water leak...an emergency situation...do I REALLY NEED at the insistence of all the plumber to see a hard copy of their T&C's before they will attend? Not going to happen.

Which is why that's not what's required by the regs, which have an exemption for 'urgent' repairs AND don't require a hard copy be provided  

Who decides what's urgent?

The Small Claims Court generally - which is where any civil dispute relating to contractual obligations would end up - based on the 'reasonableness test'; which is common in legislation as there's too many variables in the real world. 

I'd suggest a good ballpark would be anything that risks injury or significant damage to property if not repaired immediately (within 24 hours) - which ties in nicely with a landlord's exemption of the requirement to give notice for repairs.  

But realistically, in an age of smart phones, I'd be hard pressed to think of many situations where it's out and out 'unreasonable' for a professional to send a text message (which can either be saved as a draft or even sent automatically when a job is booked in)... 

...my 90 year old mother doesn't have a smart phone...next plumber on the list please.

ArbitraryRandom

diinozzo said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

diinozzo said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

diinozzo said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Appliance_engineer said:

You can all go on about the technical and legal aspects of this but in essence, a tradesman has gone to quote on a job, he's made every effort to contact the householder and his phone call was ignored.

He has had the expense and time taken to visit.  That needs to be reimbursed.  £30 is a very small amount of money and may be less than the costs of attending.

 
No-one likes paperwork, but it's not like it's hard to give the customer some generic boilerplate when agreeing to come out, and if you don't do it then you lose the right to have your expenses reimbursed.

That said, as someone who tends to get trades in via word of mouth/referral, I'd apologise and pay.   

So if for instance I have a river of water pouring down my stairs due to a water leak...an emergency situation...do I REALLY NEED at the insistence of all the plumber to see a hard copy of their T&C's before they will attend? Not going to happen.

Which is why that's not what's required by the regs, which have an exemption for 'urgent' repairs AND don't require a hard copy be provided  

Who decides what's urgent?

The Small Claims Court generally - which is where any civil dispute relating to contractual obligations would end up - based on the 'reasonableness test'; which is common in legislation as there's too many variables in the real world. 

I'd suggest a good ballpark would be anything that risks injury or significant damage to property if not repaired immediately (within 24 hours) - which ties in nicely with a landlord's exemption of the requirement to give notice for repairs.  

But realistically, in an age of smart phones, I'd be hard pressed to think of many situations where it's out and out 'unreasonable' for a professional to send a text message (which can either be saved as a draft or even sent automatically when a job is booked in)... 

...my 90 year old mother doesn't have a smart phone...next plumber on the list please.

I think you misunderstand the requirements (again...)? Plus you might want to look up the definition of 'straw man' given the OP is not a 90 yr old and did provide a mobile number  

If it helps, your mother doesn't have to have a smart phone to RECEIVE a text - smart phones just make it easier for the trader to send the info automatically (IME).  

All he would have to do is say on the call is "I charge £x callout charge, and that's on top of any labour or parts for the job. Is that okay? Great I can head over to you now - are you okay if I send you those details to your phone or email, or I can give you the paperwork when I get there?" 

That's permission to send the T&Cs via text, then providing the required info - even if your mother immediately deletes the text/email or never looks at them, she's been given them and he's then protected if he needs to enforce his rights down the line... 

Which is the point here - there's nothing stoping any trader from accepting a job where they can't give the required information in advance... but if they do then they are taking on the risk they won't get paid as they lose the RIGHT to enforce the contract if they don't. 

Bradden

ArbitraryRandom said:

diinozzo said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Appliance_engineer said:

You can all go on about the technical and legal aspects of this but in essence, a tradesman has gone to quote on a job, he's made every effort to contact the householder and his phone call was ignored.

He has had the expense and time taken to visit.  That needs to be reimbursed.  £30 is a very small amount of money and may be less than the costs of attending.

 
No-one likes paperwork, but it's not like it's hard to give the customer some generic boilerplate when agreeing to come out, and if you don't do it then you lose the right to have your expenses reimbursed.

That said, as someone who tends to get trades in via word of mouth/referral, I'd apologise and pay.   

So if for instance I have a river of water pouring down my stairs due to a water leak...an emergency situation...do I REALLY NEED at the insistence of all the plumber to see a hard copy of their T&C's before they will attend? Not going to happen.

Which is why that's not what's required by the regs, which have an exemption for 'urgent' repairs AND don't require a hard copy be provided  

I wasn't aware of that... could you point me to the relevant bit in the legislation please. I normally follow the advice from @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head but I don't recall this being mentioned before.. apologies if it has.