Probate granted - one executor delay tactics

longwalks1

We’ve finally received probate via certificate and the 3 executors (My partner and her 2 siblings) can now distribute the estate as per mums will.  Estate consists of one property to sell, and bank/savings/ISA accounts and also a separate account with a life insurance payout in it.  

At present, late mums bank account is still paying via DD the utility bills of her empty house, gas, electric, water and council tax.
One of the 3 executors is insisting that all funds/accounts must remain untouched until the house is sold, which could obviously take a year or more.  He’s also saying the accounts can’t be touched or distributed as per the will (split 3 ways equally between executors) because mums current account is still paying the house bills each month. 

We knew we’d have problems at this stage, just looking for advice and/or guidance on how best to approach it. 

Thank you everyone in advance. 

Keep_pedalling

Her current account should have been closed soon after her death, presumably the bank have not been informed. 

msb1234

The accounts should have been closed and the utility companies informed of the death. They would then chase up any payments from the estate once the house was sold.
This is what I have done with my mum’s house. I get a phone call every few months off the debt recovery agents to keep them in the loop. When the sale goes through, I will pay off all the debts then distribute the estate.

longwalks1

Thank you both. We are 99% sure the other executor went to the bank with mums death certificate to inform them, we can check with him tomorrow.  

Could Barclays have kept mums account open, even after death?

Marcon

longwalks1 said:

We’ve finally received probate via certificate and the 3 executors (My partner and her 2 siblings) can now distribute the estate as per mums will.  Estate consists of one property to sell, and bank/savings/ISA accounts and also a separate account with a life insurance payout in it.  

At present, late mums bank account is still paying via DD the utility bills of her empty house, gas, electric, water and council tax.
One of the 3 executors is insisting that all funds/accounts must remain untouched until the house is sold, which could obviously take a year or more.  He’s also saying the accounts can’t be touched or distributed as per the will (split 3 ways equally between executors) because mums current account is still paying the house bills each month. 

We knew we’d have problems at this stage, just looking for advice and/or guidance on how best to approach it. 

Thank you everyone in advance. 

Has the house been left to one person? If not, how can you distribute the estate if the proceeds from the sale are being split more than one way?

Have you checked the position on council tax with the local authority where mum's house is situated? You might have been paying too much - there's normally a period of grace when someone dies.

Are in the insurers aware of the position?

longwalks1

Marcon said:

Has the house been left to one person? If not, how can you distribute the estate if the proceeds from the sale are being split more than one way?

Have you checked the position on council tax with the local authority where mum's house is situated? You might have been paying too much - there's normally a period of grace when someone dies.

Are in the insurers aware of the position?

No the house as part of the total estate is to be sold and the proceeds split equally between 3.  We were assuming could divide up all the money from the accounts now, then when the house sells in 3/6/9 months time, split the proceeds then. 

Haven’t checked with the council regarding tax as one of the executors has been staying there a couple of times a week while sorting out mums 85 years worth of belongings.

Do you mean the life insurance provider when you say ‘insurers’ or do you mean home insurance insurers?  

doodling

Hi,

longwalks1 said:

We’ve finally received probate via certificate and the 3 executors (My partner and her 2 siblings) can now distribute the estate as per mums will.  Estate consists of one property to sell, and bank/savings/ISA accounts and also a separate account with a life insurance payout in it.  

At present, late mums bank account is still paying via DD the utility bills of her empty house, gas, electric, water and council tax.
One of the 3 executors is insisting that all funds/accounts must remain untouched until the house is sold, which could obviously take a year or more.  He’s also saying the accounts can’t be touched or distributed as per the will (split 3 ways equally between executors) because mums current account is still paying the house bills each month. 

We knew we’d have problems at this stage, just looking for advice and/or guidance on how best to approach it. 

Thank you everyone in advance. 

Legally, the executors could have distributed the contents of the bank accounts the second after the death if the bank would release the money to them.  The executors authority comes from the will, not from probate, which effectively provides a warranty as to what the will is and who the executors are (and provides a hook for HMRC to ensure they get whatever cut they are due).

There is however a practical consideration - the executors need to have on hand sufficient cash to meet the liabilities of the estate (or they would have to reach into their own pockets).  This means that sufficient cash should be retained by the executors to pay for all the stuff you list and any other costs which might come up before the estate is wound up - house clearance costs, insurance, repairs, paying a gardener to keep the place looking nice whilst you are trying to sell it, any up front costs for a conveyancer for the sale, etc. etc. etc.

it isn't clear how much cash is in the estate compared to those prospective costs, if there is a massive surplus of cash then an interim distribution to beneficiaries may be justified, if things are a little tighter then it might not.

Hoenir

longwalks1 said:

Thank you both. We are 99% sure the other executor went to the bank with mums death certificate to inform them, we can check with him tomorrow.  

Could Barclays have kept mums account open, even after death?

Payments out are frozen upon notification of the death. Then become responsibility of the Estate. . 

Marcon

longwalks1 said:

Marcon said:

Has the house been left to one person? If not, how can you distribute the estate if the proceeds from the sale are being split more than one way?

Have you checked the position on council tax with the local authority where mum's house is situated? You might have been paying too much - there's normally a period of grace when someone dies.

Are in the insurers aware of the position?

No the house as part of the total estate is to be sold and the proceeds split equally between 3.  We were assuming could divide up all the money from the accounts now, then when the house sells in 3/6/9 months time, split the proceeds then. 

Haven’t checked with the council regarding tax as one of the executors has been staying there a couple of times a week while sorting out mums 85 years worth of belongings.

Do you mean the life insurance provider when you say ‘insurers’ or do you mean home insurance insurers?  

Buildings insurance is the crucial one. 

tetrarch

longwalks1 said:

At present, late mums bank account is still paying via DD the utility bills of her empty house, gas, electric, water and council tax.

Have you approached the Local Council to check whether this has to be paid. Many (but not all) councils zero-rate Council Tax to the date of death

longwalks1 said:

We’ve finally received probate via certificate and the 3 executors (My partner and her 2 siblings) can now distribute the estate as per mums will.  Estate consists of one property to sell, and bank/savings/ISA accounts and also a separate account with a life insurance payout in it.  

At present, late mums bank account is still paying via DD the utility bills of her empty house, gas, electric, water and council tax.

It would make a lot of sense to have an Executor's Account opened and for all income/expenses to be passed through here.  You haven't stated how the estate expenses (funerals and probate costs etc) have been paid but in my experience, pushing every penny of the estate accounts through the executor's account simplifies things enormously, 

longwalks1 said:

One of the 3 executors is insisting that all funds/accounts must remain untouched until the house is sold, which could obviously take a year or more.  He’s also saying the accounts can’t be touched or distributed as per the will (split 3 ways equally between executors) because mums current account is still paying the house bills each month. 

This is nonsense. Firstly "mum's current account" should be closed immediately and any future monies in or out of the estate should be through the above-mentioned executor's account.

As long as all the assets and liabilities are put through the executor's account, then any intermediate disbursements can be paid at any time equally to all three beneficiaries in a simple transparent way that keeps the maths simple.

Don't forget that you the executors are allowed to "use" this money by placing it on deposit, it doesn't have to sit there doing nothing

Regards

Tet

Jowwie

I can appreciate the concern of one of the executors. There is guidance out there suggesting you should be waiting six months after probate has been granted before distributions.

Were any means tested benefits being claimed by your mum such as pension credit? In our case we have a DWP investigation into the estate which did not start until a few weeks after probate was granted. We have now been waiting even longer for DWP than we had to for the probate department. No distributions can be made until this completes.