Police court notice over speeding fine which I paid

Okell

LindaLili said:

Hi, 

I saw your post, sorry this happened to you.
I saw that you refused the course by post

"I had a speeding fine in July of this year and I followed the instructions; admitted guilt and declined speed awareness course via post, then paid the fine online within the time"

I received invitation to course ( i don't want to do the course) and on the paper doesn't give me options and how to pay the fine. Is mentioned that if for any reason i can't attend the course then i should let them know. 
Please let me know some details of how you let them know by post? What you wrote? Did you had to give a reason why you refusing the course? 
I am just nervous not to create a bigger problem, just for my circumstances i want the fine and the points. 

Thank you 

Some details would help to understand where you are in the process - you don't just get an "invitation" to do a course.

Presumably you received a s172 request to name the driver in connection with a speeding offence and you named yourself? 

Did you than receive an offer either to do a speed awareness course or to accept a conditional offer of a fixed penalty?  And that's where you are now?

I suspect you may not have read and understood all the paperwork properly.  I got caught speeding in October last year and all the paperwork was completely clear as to how to either (i) do a course or (ii) accept the fixed penalty (it's not a "fine") 

Joey122

This has happened to me today despite me sending off the fine and the driver license details 

1) Do I plead guilty risking the magistrate does not even bother to read it?  I mean after the Post Office Horizon prosecutions you would think the police would be nervous about doing these sorts of mini trials without presenting evidence.  Would prefer to plead not guilty and force magistrate to see NIP sent, fine paid and driver licesne sent but not received die to beinglost in post or they not having correct processes in house and lost it rather than autimtically assume it was not sent by me 

2) What hapened in the case above? 

3) Can I sue the police in small claims court for the interest that they earnt on my £100 which they held for three months until it was returned to me - I think its £1 in total but if they are prsecuting me for driving 24.1 MPH in a 20 MPH and not wanting to settle before court I also want to collect every penny.  Am I crazy because I really want to do this.

Jenni_D

1) Did you get a certificate of posting from the Post Office when you sent in your licence? (I know it doesn't say what you sent, just that you sent something. But on the balance of probabilities it would support your case). If you don't have a CoP then you have no proof of sending in your licence. (Unless they've sent communication back to you acknowledging receipt of it).

3) No. Just ... no. Interest would be at best  around 10% (Bank of England base rate plus 8%) pro-rated annually, so 10% of £100 is £10 and over 3 months that would be £2.50. The court system would likely treat any such claim as frivolous and you'd be hit with costs.

Car_54

Joey122 said:

  I mean after the Post Office Horizon prosecutions you would think the police would be nervous about doing these sorts of mini trials without presenting evidence.  

What on earth are you talking about?

By "mini-trials" I assume you mean the Single Justice Procedure. The police do not "do" trials, that is the the courts'  job. And they do present evidence.

eskbanker

Can't help wondering if there will be some Horizon equivalent of Godwin's Law, whereby gratuitous but utterly irrelevant references to it are eventually shoehorned into any thread involving courts or IT systems....

Joey122

Jenni_D said:

1) Did you get a certificate of posting from the Post Office when you sent in your licence? (I know it doesn't say what you sent, just that you sent something. But on the balance of probabilities it would support your case). If you don't have a CoP then you have no proof of sending in your licence. (Unless they've sent communication back to you acknowledging receipt of it).

3) No. Just ... no. Interest would be at best  around 10% (Bank of England base rate plus 8%) pro-rated annually, so 10% of £100 is £10 and over 3 months that would be £2.50. The court system would likely treat any such claim as frivolous and you'd be hit with costs.

1) No I did not and its not required to get a certifiacate of service - When the SJP notice was received it was not recorded delivery and they did not get a post office certificate of service.  Why is the asusmption the driver did not post the license instead of it being lost in post or not processed correctly?

3) Sorry but if the police are going to be frivuolous by prosecuting a motiring offence of 24 MPH in a 20 zone when they received the NIP and a fine but lost the driver license details and did not send any reminder and refused to discuss this I also can claim the £2 interest and clog up the courts with nonsence claims 

Seriously 

LightFlare

Try posting on FTLA forum/site (mostly the same people that advised on pepipoo)

sheramber

When the SJP notice was received it was not recorded delivery and they did not get a post office certificate of service

How do you know they didn't get proof of postage?

You do not pay for CoP nor is there anything on the item to indicate it.

The post office give you  a paper certificate  showing details of  the  delivery address etc with a reference number that you can use to track the item on the Royal Mail website.

While it is not necessary it is very useful to have in case of a dispute.

But, if you want your day in court and risk more costs then go ahead.

Jenni_D

1) The police postal system logs when NIPs are processed, and the courts (magistrates, not civil courts) accept that NIPs are sent in a timely manner. So in effect the police already have the equivalent of a CoP. (The Beckham case was an exception as the hire car company logged receipt of mail and so could prove that the NIP wasn't served on time). You not getting one means you have no evidence of doing what you're claiming to have done ... a magistrate is unlikely to accept your oral evidence purely on your word unless you come across as being upstanding and honest ... which brings us to point 3.

3) You're being too emotional about this ... the police are not being frivolous - they're following the judicial process. If you do initiate a court claim then you'll fail and it'll likely cost you a lot of time and money. And you'll also come across as bitter and frustrated, which means you'll fail the upstanding and honest test.

But don't take my word for it if you don't wish to (which is evident) - go for it if you want to dig the hole even deeper.  

Car_54

Jenni_D said:

1) The police postal system logs when NIPs are processed, and the courts (magistrates, not civil courts) accept that NIPs are sent in a timely manner. So in effect the police already have the equivalent of a CoP. (The Beckham case was an exception as the hire car company logged receipt of mail and so could prove that the NIP wasn't served on time). You not getting one means you have no evidence of doing what you're claiming to have done ... a magistrate is unlikely to accept your oral evidence purely on your word unless you come across as being upstanding and honest ... which brings us to point 3.

The OP would be ill-advised to go to court and give evidence.

If he simply responds to the SJPN by pleading guilty, explaining briefly (in the Mitigation section) that his licence details were sent but not received, and asking the court to sentence him at the FP level, he has a good chance of success. We have seen many such cases on ftla.uk and PepiPoo.