Police court notice over speeding fine which I paid

TooManyPoints

The magistrate has more than likely noted why they did not apply the guidelines in their notes...

I can assure you that no such notes are made. Magistrates do not keep notes of their individual cases and this would most certainly be especially so for decisions made under the "Single Justice" procedure. But even if they were, the defendant is entitled to know what those reasons were, and this defendant does not. There is no need for him to appeal to the Crown Court. I have recommended that he makes an application under s142 of the Magistrates' Court Act to have his case reheard in that court. There is no risk of further costs under that process.

Aretnap

Car_54 said:

mdann52 said:

TooManyPoints said:

 It is my view that the OP is entitled to a personal hearing to have the matter heard afresh.  

You can only appeal to the Court of Appeals, and they risk another costs order doing so.

No. Any appeal would be to the Crown Court.

Or alternatively to the High Court. But a Magistrates Court decision can never go to the Court of Appeal, let alone the Court of Appeals (whatever that is).

TooManyPoints

Or alternatively to the High Court.

Only if the appeal is based on a matter of law (as opposed to a matter of fact). Such an appeal is dealt with by way of a "Case Stated". The High Court does not deal with appeals based on matters of fact from the Magistrates' Court. The particular issue in this thread is a matter of fact (i.e. is there a good reason for the OP to be sentenced at the fixed penalty level?).

Arunmor

My question is why the heck do you still need to send in your licence since there is no paper copy to add your points?

Car_54

Arunmor said:

My question is why the heck do you still need to send in your licence since there is no paper copy to add your points?

You don't.

As from late 2022 you simply have to supply your licence details.

Okell

dilby said:

Update: I appealed using the online plea government portal, stating that I had paid and that was unaware the money had been refunded. I quoted the Magistrates' Courts Sentencing Guidelines which state 'Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself,...

As I've already posted on your thread on Pepipoo, if that's all you told them I'm not particularly surprised at the outcome.

Didn't you think also to tell them the really important fact that you had posted your licence deatils off, but that they obviously got lost in the post?  The magistrates wouldn't be interested in whether you were aware of the refund or not - that's wholly irrelevant.

If you follow @TooManyPoints advice (or NewJudge's advice on Pepipoo) to ask the court to reopen the case under s142 of the Mags Courts Act, make sure to tell them all the relevant info - particularly that you did everything in your power to comply with the terms of the conditional offer (ie paying and sending off your licence details)

dilby

Okell said:

dilby said:

Update: I appealed using the online plea government portal, stating that I had paid and that was unaware the money had been refunded. I quoted the Magistrates' Courts Sentencing Guidelines which state 'Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself,...

As I've already posted on your thread on Pepipoo, if that's all you told them I'm not particularly surprised at the outcome.

Didn't you think also to tell them the really important fact that you had posted your licence deatils off, but that they obviously got lost in the post?  The magistrates wouldn't be interested in whether you were aware of the refund or not - that's wholly irrelevant.

If you follow @TooManyPoints advice (or NewJudge's advice on Pepipoo) to ask the court to reopen the case under s142 of the Mags Courts Act, make sure to tell them all the relevant info - particularly that you did everything in your power to comply with the terms of the conditional offer (ie paying and sending off your licence details)

Thanks for the replies all; apologies for lack of correspondence unfortunately my wife has been in hospital and it's been a tricky time. I did state that I had sent it off. In fact my exact plea is below:

"I have reviewed the audit trail supplied with my Procedure Notice and can see that it is being claimed my license details were not provided and a letter was sent. I can confirm that I did indeed send my license details (a separate slip which I posted in the mailbox in the street behind my house) and that I did not receive a reminder letter. I responded to all communication promptly and paid the fine online within the required time period. I have only seen since this letter has been received that this fine was refunded; clearly I had no intention of escaping payment as I opted to pay and did so.

I am therefore requesting that any fine be equivalent to the original penalty so I am not further out of pocket.

As stated in the Magistrates' Courts Sentencing Guidelines:

"Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances."

Thank you"

dilby

Car_54 said:

Arunmor said:

My question is why the heck do you still need to send in your licence since there is no paper copy to add your points?

You don't.

As from late 2022 you simply have to supply your licence details.

TooManyPoints said:

The magistrate has more than likely noted why they did not apply the guidelines in their notes...

I can assure you that no such notes are made. Magistrates do not keep notes of their individual cases and this would most certainly be especially so for decisions made under the "Single Justice" procedure. But even if they were, the defendant is entitled to know what those reasons were, and this defendant does not. There is no need for him to appeal to the Crown Court. I have recommended that he makes an application under s142 of the Magistrates' Court Act to have his case reheard in that court. There is no risk of further costs under that process.

Thanks. I have been speaking with a friend who the same thing happened to who did this and went to court. He tells me the magistrate was on a bit of a power trip and threatened to revoke his license. Now I don't know on what planet that could happen, but this is a big concern for me because if it DID happen - I would be totally screwed. What is the actual risk of walking away with a greater fine or charge?

TooManyPoints

He tells me the magistrate was on a bit of a power trip and threatened to revoke his license. Now I don't know on what planet that could happen,...

I think your friend is pulling your plonker. Magistrates can only act according to the law and their guidelines and there is nothing in either that would allow such action.

What is the actual risk of walking away with a greater fine or charge?

Providing the amount you have been fined is in accordance with the guidelines and is based on your income, no chance.

LindaLili

Hi, 

I saw your post, sorry this happened to you.
I saw that you refused the course by post

"I had a speeding fine in July of this year and I followed the instructions; admitted guilt and declined speed awareness course via post, then paid the fine online within the time"

I received invitation to course ( i don't want to do the course) and on the paper doesn't give me options and how to pay the fine. Is mentioned that if for any reason i can't attend the course then i should let them know. 
Please let me know some details of how you let them know by post? What you wrote? Did you had to give a reason why you refusing the course? 
I am just nervous not to create a bigger problem, just for my circumstances i want the fine and the points. 

Thank you