Police court notice over speeding fine which I paid

Aretnap

dilby said:

I was wondering if anyone knows of any further way this can be appealed or this is it. I'm just struggling to not feel really hard done by.

Realistically that's probably it I'm afraid. You could speak to the Crown Court and hope that you get a judge who takes a more generous reading of the guidelines than the magistrate did. Or you could speak to the High Court and argue that as a point of law, the magistrate's interpretation of the guidelines was wrong. But if your appeal was unsuccessful the costs would be several hundred pounds in the Crown Court, or several thousand in the High Court, on top of what you've already been offered to pay so think carefully before trying to go down that route.

dilby

Aretnap said:

dilby said:

I was wondering if anyone knows of any further way this can be appealed or this is it. I'm just struggling to not feel really hard done by.

Realistically that's probably it I'm afraid. You could speak to the Crown Court and hope that you get a judge who takes a more generous reading of the guidelines than the magistrate did. Or you could speak to the High Court and argue that as a point of law, the magistrate's interpretation of the guidelines was wrong. But if your appeal was unsuccessful the costs would be several hundred pounds in the Crown Court, or several thousand in the High Court, on top of what you've already been offered to pay so think carefully before trying to go down that route.

Thank you, yes that doesn't sound like a risk I'm willing to do, as hard done by as I feel!

TooManyPoints

This may sound familiar:

The fine is because they didn't receive my driving license details...

No it isn't. It's because you exceeded the speed limit.

Unfortunately the court did not see fit to apply the guidance you mentioned. They probably took the view that the "administrative difficulty" was not outside your control, and so sentenced you under the normal guidelines.

You have two routes to try to remedy the situation:

- You can apply to the court to reopen your case under s142 of the Magistrates' Court Act. This gives the court the power to amend any decisions taken earlier.

- You can appeal against your sentence to the Crown Court.

I don't really rate your chances of success with either, though the Magistrates' Court may agree to re-examine your case to give you a chance to make proper representations regarding having submitted your licence details.

A failed appeal in the Crown Court would be very costly. Last time I looked it was >£1,200.

I recommend you apply to the court to have your case reopened under s142.

prettyandfluffy

On what grounds would you appeal? You have said you were speeding and that the payment of the fine failed to go from your bank account.  You have no audit trail to prove what you returned and when.  I think you would be well advised to accept the situation even though you are unhappy about it.

dilby

prettyandfluffy said:

On what grounds would you appeal? You have said you were speeding and that the payment of the fine failed to go from your bank account.  You have no audit trail to prove what you returned and when.  I think you would be well advised to accept the situation even though you are unhappy about it.

It did go from my bank account, it was just refunded 5 months later, so I thought the matter was dealt with.

ontheroad1970

I believe the correct wording for having the matter dealt with at FPN level is 'for reasons unconnected to the offence', not 'out of the offender's control'.  The court isn't obliged to go with this as it is only guidance.

TooManyPoints

I believe the correct wording for having the matter dealt with at FPN level is 'for reasons unconnected to the offence', not 'out of the offender's control'.  The court isn't obliged to go with this as it is only guidance.

The exact wording is "Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender,..."

Yes, it is only guidance. But Magistrates are obliged to followed the Sentencing Council's guidelines unless they consider there is good reason not to do so and if they do not then they must give their reasons. Since this matter was heard under the "Single Justice" procedure, no reasons were given. It is my view that the OP is entitled to a personal hearing to have the matter heard afresh. If the outcome is the same he is entitled to know why the guidelines were not followed. If they did not believe him when he said he had submitted his licence details he is entitled to know this so that he can consider whether or not to make an appeal in the Crown Court.   

mdann52

TooManyPoints said:

 It is my view that the OP is entitled to a personal hearing to have the matter heard afresh.  

You can only appeal to the Court of Appeals, and they risk another costs order doing so.

The magistrate has more than likely noted why they did not apply the guidelines in their notes, especially if explicitly mentioned in the offer, so appealing the sentence to a hearing is likely going to be an unsuccessful gamble.

If he complied with the offer but for some reason it was not honoured, the correct approach would have been to plead not guilty and challenge it that way, as if a CoFP is taken up and complied with then the prosecution would be unlawful.

Car_54

mdann52 said:

TooManyPoints said:

 It is my view that the OP is entitled to a personal hearing to have the matter heard afresh.  

You can only appeal to the Court of Appeals, and they risk another costs order doing so.

No. Any appeal would be to the Crown Court.

Andyjflet

This happened to me when I thought I was being clever and didn't send my licence in, therefore I hadn't completed the requirements and I got a larger fine.