Changing old ceiling rose light fitting (lots of wires)

Hi everyone, I am changing an old ceiling rose light fitting with a new modern light. The ceiling rose has about 10 wires which I assume is a loop fitting. I only have a live and a neutral connectors on the new fitting. 

I’ve been researching and wago connectors seem to be a good solution. Can anyone advise how many I need and which wires need to go in the same wago connector. Picture attached

Thanks as always
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Comments

  • That's a standard rose fitting. You can just wire it in a junction box above the ceiling and then connect the two wires to the new fitting.
    You can use wagos, but you do need to know what you are doing in both cases!
  • Eldi_Dos
    Eldi_Dos Posts: 1,490
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    How old is that ceiling covering and could that be artex type material that is breaking up round the edge of the fitting?
  • TheJP
    TheJP Posts: 1,634
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    Eldi_Dos said:
    How old is that ceiling covering and could that be artex type material that is breaking up round the edge of the fitting?
    Yes it’s artex, house was built in 1998. 
  • TheJP
    TheJP Posts: 1,634
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    That's a standard rose fitting. You can just wire it in a junction box above the ceiling and then connect the two wires to the new fitting.
    You can use wagos, but you do need to know what you are doing in both cases!
    My thoughts were, the 2 earths into one wago, 2 neutral/black into a wago, the 4 live/red into 2 or 1 wago connectors then the remaining neutral and live wire into the new fitting. So that would be 4/3 2 port wagos? Have I got that right?
  • TheJP
    TheJP Posts: 1,634
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    edited 10 December 2023 at 1:57PM
    Someone on another group has suggested taking the terminal block out of the fitting and putting it in the new fitting as it will fit. Although I’m not sure where the earth wires would go. I have added a picture of the new fitting. 
  • grumbler
    grumbler Posts: 58,597
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    edited 10 December 2023 at 2:45PM
    TheJP said:
    That's a standard rose fitting. You can just wire it in a junction box above the ceiling and then connect the two wires to the new fitting.
    You can use wagos, but you do need to know what you are doing in both cases!
    My thoughts were, the 2 earths into one wago, 2 neutral/black into a wago, the 4 live/red into 2 or 1 wago connectors then the remaining neutral and live wire into the new fitting. So that would be 4/3 2 port wagos? Have I got that right?

    I think all cables have earth.
    So you need:
    3 4-port wagos and one 2-port
    If 4-port ones don't exist then it's 3 5-port ones.
    Also, they are supposed to be in a junction boxhttpswwwtlc-directcoukImagesProductssize_3WAGOBOXCAJPG
    The box goes into the ceiling void, you'll probably need to enlarge the hole.
    TheJP said:
    Someone on another group has suggested taking the terminal block out of the fitting and putting it in the new fitting as it will fit. Although I’m not sure where the earth wires would go. I have added a picture of the new fitting. 

    I don't think you'll be able to fit everything into the new fitting and I think generally it's a bad idea if the casing is metal unlike the rose.

    We are born naked, wet and hungry...Then things get worse. :(

    .withdrawal, NOT withdrawel ..bear with me, NOT bare with me
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  • Mr.Generous
    Mr.Generous Posts: 3,256
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    The 3 neutrals need some heat shrink over the broken insulation or some other step to repair them. You cannot use seperate wago's for the neutrals and lives. As Veteransaver says ... You can use wagos or terminal blocks, but you do need to know what you are doing in both cases!

    It's very easy to make this light work but screw up other lights on the curcuit. Electrical work is one of the few jobs that you can make it work fine, but not be safe.
  • Lorian
    Lorian Posts: 5,668
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    edited 10 December 2023 at 5:34PM
    591 junction box specifically made for replacing a ceiling rose. All the cables of the loop in loop out terminate in this and your light connects to it from the other end. Available many places I including Amazon.

    Maintenance free so it can go up into the ceiling, you can just cut a slot big enough to push it up 

    https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ASJ501.html

    (Or wagos in a wago box as suggested but this can be more cost effective if you don't have large boxes of 221s lying about)
  • 35har1old
    35har1old Posts: 936
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    edited 11 December 2023 at 12:14AM
    That's a standard rose fitting. You can just wire it in a junction box above the ceiling and then connect the two wires to the new fitting.
    You can use wagos, but you do need to know what you are doing in both cases!
    Do you have excess above?TheJP said:
    Hi everyone, I am changing an old ceiling rose light fitting with a new modern light. The ceiling rose has about 10 wires which I assume is a loop fitting. I only have a live and a neutral connectors on the new fitting. 

    I’ve been researching and wago connectors seem to be a good solution. Can anyone advise how many I need and which wires need to go in the same wago connector. Picture attached

    Thanks as always
    The original ceiling rose should have had a blue blue wire coming from fitting to the left hand terminal
    You could just use a ceiling rose if you have excess above.
    It is important to connect the red that is suppling the fitting at moment to the same terminal 
  • TheJP said:
    Someone on another group has suggested taking the terminal block out of the fitting and putting it in the new fitting as it will fit. Although I’m not sure where the earth wires would go. I have added a picture of the new fitting. 
    The screw beneath your thumb could be the earth terminal.
    Did the fitting not come with a earth wire in the packaging 
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