Ideas to help the Energy Grid through winter

MattMattMattUK

pseudodox said:

If we all turned everything practicable off at the same time then the demand from the grid would plummet.  But at the end of the session as we all switch everything back on again wouldn't that create a huge surge in demand?  It long been said that there is a surge in demand at the end of a "Coronation Street" episode or the Queen's/King's Speech on Christmas Day when everyone switches their kettle on.

They are not trying to get everyone to cut usage, they are trying to get enough people to reduce demand. The end of TV program thing did used to happen, although not really any more, it was generally dealt with with pumped water power stations. The current system is to spread usage around and to eliminate large peaks, as this time of year with solar contributing nothing after 16:00 and higher demand from heating and cooking the 16:00-19:00 window can exceed standard generation capacity, that means that we either have to import electricity via the interconnectors, bring additional generation online (some standby gas turbines and coal plants), as well as disconnect large users with temporary disconnect agreements. The demand reduction schemes are designed to move that usage from those peaks to other time periods where it would be covered by the normal generation capacity. 

pseudodox said:

With the current paid to reduce energy sessions isn't some of the saving offset by simply doing the washing earlier/later or using extra energy to boost a freezer that was turned off?  

That is correct, that is what they are designed to do, load shift. 

pseudodox said:

Surely we should all cut our unnecessary use all the time.  I never leave anything on standby, wash only when I have a full load, iron very few items beyond the visible when worn shirt fronts, spend just enough time in the shower to get clean, don't have a TV playing away in the background (I see this in people I visit), turn off lights when leaving a room, have my CH on low & wear a jumper around the house etc etc.  

We should reduce the our wasteful consumption yes, but leaving things on standby makes little difference for most modern electronics (some smart TVs, depending on how they are set up, can be slightly more wasteful), modern LEDs barely use anything, so turning them off when walking out of one room for a few minutes is not going to make a noticeable difference to people's bills. Some people do keep their homes far too hot or leave things running when not needed, but as with most things being sensible, making savings but there is no need to go to extremes that some do. I could turn off all my standby electronics and it might save me a few pounds a month, but the hassle, as well as the potential shortening the life of the electronics would not be worth it.

pseudodox said:

And this is how I have always managed my energy consumption as I could never afford to be profligate with it.  Which has made managing since the price hikes an easy exercise.

Some people make reasonable savings, some ware wasteful, some go too far, they key is to be balanced and take all factors, welfare, wear and tear, life of products etc. into account as part of a holistic approach. 

born_again

If you look at the current energy saving times being pushed in the time frames 16:00 to 18:00 over the ones so far this year.
This is peak usage time. 
Kids coming home from school & meal time for many, given weather many ovens running longer due to stews etc. So as these are known peak times, that many can not cut down on. Unless they have later meals, which just shifts demand to later when it would normally drop off.

So if the people that run the grid can not work this out, then !!!!!! are they doing in their roles...

Most people have already cut usage to the bone. Only way I could make a decent saving out of these schemes is to turn power right off & go for a meal out. Which would wipe any savings made.

In reality there needs to be a massive investment in battery storage to make full use of renewable energy.

Krakkkers

I think the grid is and will use storage but that storage is domestic.
People using the stored energy in their EV or home batteries.

GingerTim

MikeJXE said:

The vast majority of energy users are on dumb meters, 

According to the National Audit Office, 57% of all electricity and gas meters are now smart (32.4 million out of 57.1 million, as of March 2023) - so those with dumb meters are now in fact a minority, and an ever smaller one at that.

MattMattMattUK

born_again said:

If you look at the current energy saving times being pushed in the time frames 16:00 to 18:00 over the ones so far this year.
This is peak usage time. 
Kids coming home from school & meal time for many, given weather many ovens running longer due to stews etc. So as these are known peak times, that many can not cut down on. Unless they have later meals, which just shifts demand to later when it would normally drop off.

So if the people that run the grid can not work this out, then !!!!!! are they doing in their roles...

The entire point of the system is to shift demand from the peak window to off peak, not to reduced overall usage, although that may occur to a smaller extent.

born_again said:

Most people have already cut usage to the bone. Only way I could make a decent saving out of these schemes is to turn power right off & go for a meal out. Which would wipe any savings made.

If one usually uses 4kWh in the time period (16:30-18:00 today) and shifts 3.5kWh to after until after 18:00, which is entirely achievable, that would mean a rebate of £14. That represents significant savings, especially for a family struggling with money. There have been sessions on Wednesday and again tonight, that means that some people could have already made £28+ in just three days. 

born_again said:

In reality there needs to be a massive investment in battery storage to make full use of renewable energy.

It would be cheaper and more sensible just to build nuclear power plants. 

QrizB

born_again said:

If you look at the current energy saving times being pushed in the time frames 16:00 to 18:00 over the ones so far this year. This is peak usage time.

... and that's exactly why there's a shortfall in cheap electricity generation at those times.

born_again said:

So if the people that run the grid can not work this out, then !!!!!! are they doing in their roles...

The people running the grid have worked this out, that's why they're doing it.

born_again said:

Most people have already cut usage to the bone. Only way I could make a decent saving out of these schemes is to turn power right off & go for a meal out.

This isn't about you personally making a saving, when you've already cut usage in that period. It's about other people, who haven't cut usage, doing so.

This seems to be a common misunderstanding on the forum. In order to use less energy than usual during the saving session and be rewarded, you have to be one of the people who would normally be using more energy in that period. Mr Green with his solar panels, home battery and compost-powered methane-fuelled CHP generator isn't necessarily going to save any money as he's already using next-to-nothing. He isn't part of the problem.

It's Mr Brown, who would normally get home from work at 4pm on a Friday and switch on his fan heater, run a deep bath from his electric combi boiler and start heating his hot tub. He is the problem and he's the target audience.

MattMattMattUK said:

It would be cheaper and more sensible just to build nuclear power plants.

Last time I saw a cost comparison, battery-backed renewables were cheaper than nuclear. Of course it depends on lots of assumptions and I'm not suggesting we get into a protracted discussion in this thread.