Ideas to help the Energy Grid through winter

MikeJXE

There are many smart people on the energy board who come up with ways of saving money by, ways to cut down, installing solar panels, heat pumps etc but 

The vast majority of energy users are on dumb meters, most can't afford solar panels or in flats where they can't have them 

I read where the grid sometimes has difficulty producing the right amount of energy at the right time and if they get it wrong it costs money (and we pay)

This problem to some extent is being trialled for consumers with smart meters who are paid not to use energy at certain times, some say it's not the money it's doing a bit to save the planet so why not allow everyone do their bit to save the planet 

When we had Covid the public were asked to stay home, yes I know it became law but I believe if they had been asked most would have done it anyway 

Why can't the national grid run a trial for everyone, dumb or smart so everyone can take part.

Surely it wouldn't cost much if your supplier sent you an email outlining the plan 

Just explain to the population why we need to switch off our high energy usage appliances between certain hours like 5pm - 6pm or whenever necessary 

Would this work do you think or have you a better idea ? 

MultiFuelBurner

I like the idea of everyone joining in but these energy saving sessions and the emergency ones the sessions are split into 30 minute period. They are not days or hours long that's not how it works (we would all like that)

You can't have meter readers out reading dumb meters at 5pm then 6pm(using your example). You can't rely on the public with dumb meters to not fabricate the truth about their readings during an event and that's why they need automatically collecting to calculate the results.

MikeJXE

MultiFuelBurner said:

I like the idea of everyone joining in but these energy saving sessions and the emergency ones the sessions are split into 30 minute period. They are not days or hours long that's not how it works (we would all like that)

You can't have meter readers out reading dumb meters at 5pm then 6pm(using your example). You can't rely on the public with dumb meters to not fabricate the truth about their readings during an event and that's why they need automatically collecting to calculate the results.

The idea is not to save money at certain times, it's to save the grid being overwhelmed, as you say the usage could not be verified 

The idea is to have some impact on the grid, I'm sure the grid  would be able to see a difference if enough users stopped using at a certain time of the day 

I'm not sure whether this was tried when I was younger donkeys years ago 

MultiFuelBurner

MikeJXE said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

I like the idea of everyone joining in but these energy saving sessions and the emergency ones the sessions are split into 30 minute period. They are not days or hours long that's not how it works (we would all like that)

You can't have meter readers out reading dumb meters at 5pm then 6pm(using your example). You can't rely on the public with dumb meters to not fabricate the truth about their readings during an event and that's why they need automatically collecting to calculate the results.

The idea is not to save money at certain times, it's to save the grid being overwhelmed, as you say the usage could not be verified 

The idea is to have some impact on the grid, I'm sure the grid  would be able to see a difference if enough users stopped using at a certain time of the day 

I'm not sure whether this was tried when I was younger donkeys years ago 

You mean a collective the whole grid save 1Mwh so share that out amongst all electricity supplies.

Yes I think that would have been a good idea in the past but I do like the carrot of a smart meter so that the dumb meter users feel like they are missing out (which they are)

I don't know the actual figures or percentage of dumb meters left that would be interesting to see how many people are missing out on cheaper, free and sometimes paid to use energy.

MikeJXE

MultiFuelBurner said:

MikeJXE said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

I like the idea of everyone joining in but these energy saving sessions and the emergency ones the sessions are split into 30 minute period. They are not days or hours long that's not how it works (we would all like that)

You can't have meter readers out reading dumb meters at 5pm then 6pm(using your example). You can't rely on the public with dumb meters to not fabricate the truth about their readings during an event and that's why they need automatically collecting to calculate the results.

The idea is not to save money at certain times, it's to save the grid being overwhelmed, as you say the usage could not be verified 

The idea is to have some impact on the grid, I'm sure the grid  would be able to see a difference if enough users stopped using at a certain time of the day 

I'm not sure whether this was tried when I was younger donkeys years ago 

You mean a collective the whole grid save 1Mwh so share that out amongst all electricity supplies.

Yes I think that would have been a good idea in the past but I do like the carrot of a smart meter so that the dumb meter users feel like they are missing out (which they are)

I don't know the actual figures or percentage of dumb meters left that would be interesting to see how many people are missing out on cheaper, free and sometimes paid to use energy.

So if it would have been a good idea in the past why couldn't it work now ?

I'm not disputing users are missing out by not having a smart meter but there are many reasons why this isn't possible.

If everyone with a dumb meter asked for one would they get one ? Of course not, it's not possible and when everyone is on a smart meter will it be even possible to replace them every 15 years 

So why not give it a go or is it that it might be successful and it's not about saving anything it's about being under control of the powers that be. ?

TheBanker

Do you mean just issue a general request for people to try to avoid using energy during the peak period (today it's 16:30 to 18:00)? Those on smart meters would benefit financially, those with dumb meters would not receive a financial incentive but may get a happy feeling by taking part anyway? And ultimately we would all benefit to a very small degree by the grid potentially avoiding burning more fossil fuels, and avoiding the high costs of the extra generation?

markin

They could run a tv advert, people could sign up for mobile phone alerts *(could be a problem for people who keep them off, or refuse to have one), and people could shift their usage to feel good, and reduce the yearly and growing balancing costs, £4.5B this year!

https://davidturver.substack.com/p/exposing-the-hidden-costs-of-renewables

MikeJXE

TheBanker said:

Do you mean just issue a general request for people to try to avoid using energy during the peak period (today it's 16:30 to 18:00)? Those on smart meters would benefit financially, those with dumb meters would not receive a financial incentive but may get a happy feeling by taking part anyway? And ultimately we would all benefit to a very small degree by the grid potentially avoiding burning more fossil fuels, and avoiding the high costs of the extra generation?

Exactly you have it in one

Not only would they get a happy feeling as you call but it would save the grid buying last minute energy which is more expensive thus saving us all from higher charges 

Is it not worth a shot 

QrizB

MikeJXE said:

Why can't the national grid run a trial for everyone, dumb or smart so everyone can take part.
Surely it wouldn't cost much if your supplier sent you an email outlining the plan
Just explain to the population why we need to switch off our high energy usage appliances between certain hours like 5pm - 6pm or whenever necessary

I agree with hat suppliers, or the WSO directly, could/should better publicise times that the electricity supply is right, and could ask consumers and small businesses to reduce their consumption during that period. They already do this for industrial users.

MikeJXE said:

The vast majority of energy users are on dumb meters

The majority (57% at the end of March 2023) of domestic electricity meters are already smart, so most households are already in a position to join the current schemes.

The target is for the rollout to reach 80% of homes by the end of 2025.

MikeJXE said:

I'm not disputing users are missing out by not having a smart meter but there are many reasons why this isn't possible.

The Government estimates that 96.5% of homes are suitable for a smart meter.

MikeJXE said:

If everyone with a dumb meter asked for one would they get one ? Of course not, it's not possible and when everyone is on a smart meter will it be even possible to replace them every 15 years

Over the last five years, the average rate of smart meter fitting has been about 4 million meters per year. There are fewer than 60 million meters installed, including both gas and electricity, so the current rate of installation would allow every meter to be replaced over a 15 year period.

If the target of 70% by the end of 2025 is to be met, about 6 million meters will need to be fitted in 2024 and 2025. If we get to the stage of being able to fit 6M meters a year, replacing 60M every 15 years will be simple.

MikeJXE

markin said:

They could run a tv advert, people could sign up for mobile phone alerts *(could be a problem for people who keep them off, or refuse to have one), and people could shift their usage to feel good, and reduce the yearly and growing balancing costs, £4.5B this year!

https://davidturver.substack.com/p/exposing-the-hidden-costs-of-renewables

It doesn't have to be an expensive tv advert 

Most people are on line

Octopus send me 2 email reminders a couple of days before my meter readings are due, it can't cost that much. 

Why not do similar to remind me not to use energy tomorrow at 4 o'clock please ?

If something like this is never tried how would anyone know if it could work or not 

TheBanker

MikeJXE said:

markin said:

They could run a tv advert, people could sign up for mobile phone alerts *(could be a problem for people who keep them off, or refuse to have one), and people could shift their usage to feel good, and reduce the yearly and growing balancing costs, £4.5B this year!

https://davidturver.substack.com/p/exposing-the-hidden-costs-of-renewables

It doesn't have to be an expensive tv advert 

Most people are on line

Octopus send me 2 email reminders a couple of days before my meter readings are due, it can't cost that much. 

Why not do similar to remind me not to use energy tomorrow at 4 o'clock please ?

If something like this is never tried how would anyone know if it could work or not 

A good point. Or National Grid could encourage people to sign up for their app then send push notifications.

When the DFS operated on Wednesday, I heard about it on the news on the radio. I've got a smart meter and am signed up for notifications from the supplier, but I'd not received it. So there is another option for advising/reminding people. Could incorporate it into the weather forecast like they do for pollen warnings etc in the summer.