Abolish standing charges

Hoenir

MattMattMattUK said:

The exceptions were Lloyd's and HBOS, which we as tax payers should hopefully make a slight profit on when finally all unwound. Also the banking sector was secured for the safety of the public, if a banking system collapses so does society, and that is not good for taxpayers.

Misinformation is part of the problem these days across many topics. Lloyds wasn't bailed out. Like HSBC was actually a very well run bank. LLoyds took a commercial decision, without performing due diligence , to a shot gun marriage within 48 hours to save  HBOS from collapse. LLoyds shareholders ultimately did foot the bill. RBS was the bank you intended to refer to. This will never repay the taxpayer. As the largest bank in the world at the time of the GFC. Was pivotal to the entire global banking system. It's failure simply couldn't be allowed to happen. Northern Rock on the other hand eventually did clear it's nationalisation cost. 

MattMattMattUK

Hoenir said:

MattMattMattUK said:

The exceptions were Lloyd's and HBOS, which we as tax payers should hopefully make a slight profit on when finally all unwound. Also the banking sector was secured for the safety of the public, if a banking system collapses so does society, and that is not good for taxpayers.

Misinformation is part of the problem these days across many topics. Lloyds wasn't bailed out. Like HSBC was actually a very well run bank. LLoyds took a commercial decision, without performing due diligence , to a shot gun marriage within 48 hours to save  HBOS from collapse. LLoyds shareholders ultimately did foot the bill. RBS was the bank you intended to refer to. This will never repay the taxpayer. As the largest bank in the world at the time of the GFC. Was pivotal to the entire global banking system. It's failure simply couldn't be allowed to happen. Northern Rock on the other hand eventually did clear it's nationalisation cost. 

Ah, sorry, I was on a train trying to remember who did what. If I remember rightly was there some kind of involvement in the Lloyds deal from Brown which was partially responsible for the car crash? 

QrizB

TractorFactor said:

Doesn't the standing charge go against those who aren't at that home?
If you go away on holiday for 4 weeks, you still have to pay money even though you're not using anything?

Yes, and people with multiple homes or holiday homes have to pay the standing charge for all of them.

TractorFactor said:

We had a time without it, but the older generation saw "lower bills" and so it was brought in, forgetting that people would then have to pay an extra charge every day.

I don't know quite what you're saying here. There have been standing charges for energy use since the 1940s, at least.

There were a few years where suppliers were offwring "zero standing charge" tariffs, but those simply added the standing charge onto the first few units used each period. (You can still get such a tariff from Utilita, on prepay.)

TractorFactor said:

There isn't a standing charge for water is there?

Yes, there is.

dunstonh

There were a few years where suppliers were offwring "zero standing charge" tariffs, but those simply added the standing charge onto the first few units used each period. (You can still get such a tariff from Utilita, on prepay.)

That is how I remember my early years of energy bills.

JSHarris

As an illustration of how high standing charges are now, I've just looked at our electricity charges for the past two weeks.  The standing charge is almost double our electric central heating energy cost.  Admittedly the weather has been very mild for the time of year, but over the course of a whole year the standing charge now makes up nearly 23% of my total electricity bill, and that is set to increase to about 27% of my total bill by the end of next year.

pfpf

...next poster, "how low they are making up only 5% of my total bill". 

BikingBud

Whilst I do agree that the provision of key utilities should not be a vehicle by which companies, and especially foreign entities, generate profit when so many are in fuel poverty, by comparison what does it cost per year to have a car at your disposal? Standing charges might include:

• Purchase
• Depreciation
• Ins
• Tax
• MOT
• Maintenance
• Tyres etc

And those costs accrue before you undertake any travel. If you don't want to pay these you source another mode of transport, cycle, scooter, walk, public transport.

Unfortunately the choice of mode of transport is rather simpler than "choosing" to heat or have light. And it would appear @JSHarris that you are skewing the balance as you are very fortunate to have an extremely well insulated house, high non-recurrent costs (work those out per day of occupation), with minimal running costs. I would also take that as you mention heating cost for electric you have elected to remove the supply and therefore the standing charges for gas. 

Invest in some more infra and make yourself fully self sufficient, how much would that cost per day? More or less than the standing charge?

It must be nice for some!

JSHarris

BikingBud said:

It must be nice for some!

Not sure what to make of that.  I started with zero skills, having had my job chopped by Cameron's cuts in 2010.  I then spent two years teaching myself about everything needed to build a house (I've never been a builder, plumber, carpenter, heating engineer, solar power installer, roofer etc) and designing this house, because I didn't have any money to pay an architect (so that was something else I had to learn about).  I then spent the best part of four years building it, mostly on my own, working 10 to 12 hour days, no matter the weather.  Two thirds of the way through, with no money, when I couldn't see a way through, I came close to topping myself (ask anyone that's done a self-build with their own labour - this isn't an uncommon situation).  After all that  I rather think I've earned the right to have a fairly cheap to run home, especially given the sacrifices needed in order to do it.  It's only nice for me because I worked bloody hard to make it so, no one handed me it on a plate.

BikingBud

You appear to be getting a very good, (much, much better) deal than most who are slaves to the energy costs due to poor design and build standard of the housing they can get, even in new builds.

I have no doubts that what you have achieved is quite phenomenal and a significant measure of the time and effort that you have expended. Those efforts are all part of your non-recurrent costs, the training, upskilling, materials, time, and sacrifices, those costs have to be covered by any organisation that provides a service, and that is the standing charge.

And you are very entitled to have the results of your efforts, but you have been able where many others are not. They don't have access to land or resources before we even consider health factors, to self-build energy efficient houses that are virtually off grid.

I congratulate you on your efforts and apologies if it was a little insensitive but the reality appears to be you are exploiting your efficiency to the extent that the standing charge is now a much more significant proportion of your costs. I would be celebrating that as having played the system as well as you can, and as you cannot reduce those fixed overheads, the only next step appears to be going off grid.

MeteredOut

JSHarris said:

As an illustration of how high standing charges are now, I've just looked at our electricity charges for the past two weeks.  The standing charge is almost double our electric central heating energy cost.  Admittedly the weather has been very mild for the time of year, but over the course of a whole year the standing charge now makes up nearly 23% of my total electricity bill, and that is set to increase to about 27% of my total bill by the end of next year.

I don't see how the standing charges being a large percentage of an your bill indicates they are high any more than them representing only 9% of my over bill would suggests they are low. They are there (largely) to cover the fixed costs to provide you with the facility to use the service.