IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.

Napier Parking claim despite no parking bays - Defence feedback needed please

Hi All,

I entered a car park which I have used several times over the last few years. On this occasion there were no bays. There are approx 34 parking pays so not the biggest of car parks in what is a busy area especially on the weekends when the fine was issued. I stayed around in the car park to see if a space would become available as this has usually happened in the past.  After around 11 minutes of waiting I left the car park and received the fine through the post a short time later. I did appeal this at the time directly with Napier, however this was rejected.

I have now had the claim form with issue date of 17th Nov and I did the AOS on the 28th. I'm in the process of writing my defence, can someone kindly check the below:

3. The defendant entered the car park  with the intention of
parking up and paying to do so, as I have done multiple times in the past in the same car
park. Upon entering the car park there were no available bays. I decided to wait to see if
a bay would become available as this has been the case when I have used the car park
in the past. After what I deem to be a reasonable waiting time, no bays became free and
I then decided to the leave the car park to park elsewhere. At no point was my vehicle
parked in any bay and nor did I leave the vehicle at any stage. Had a parking space
been available the defendant would of course have paid and displayed. As a result of
the vehicle not being in a parking bay there is clearly no financial loss to the claimant
and thus usage of the car park was to no personal gain to the defendant who was in the
area to shop in the neighbouring high street for what is usually a few hours yet left the
car park after a few minutes. As mentioned previously the defendant has used this car
park numerous times without any issue in the past which shows I had no intention of
misusing the car park. With all of the points above it is the defendants case that the
claim is dismissed.

Also I do have a couple of question if someone can someone point me in the right direction.

1) Am I right in thinking I leave the rest of the defence template (points 1 through to 29) as they are and just add my defence into section 3? I have added the words 'add driver' in section 1 as per the guide.

2) With regards to evidences I am unsure what I can provide to help my case. I have used the car park in the past paying with coins so no digital receipts. Would a SAR request provide me with records of all the times I have used the car park without issue in the past and would this support my case?

Many thanks


«1

Comments

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,237
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Forumite
    edited 30 November 2023 at 3:44PM
    Please show us the bottom half of the claim form, covering up the password and VRM of course.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,073
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Forumite
    I have now had the claim form with issue date of 17th Nov and I did the AOS on the 28th. 
    With a Claim Issue Date of 17th November, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 20th December 2023 to file a Defence.

    That's nearly three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence but please don't leave it to the last minute.
    To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.
    Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

    Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.
  • Please show us the bottom half of the claim form, covering up the password and VRM of course.
    Hi See attached,
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,237
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Forumite
    Who filed that claim, BW Legal?

    The whole template defence is used, if course, as it tells you where it says "YES, ALL of it".

    Please re-draft your draft para 3 in the third person as the Template also tells you to do.


    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Who filed that claim, BW Legal?

    The whole template defence is used, if course, as it tells you where it says "YES, ALL of it".

    Please re-draft your draft para 3 in the third person as the Template also tells you to do.


    Thanks for your response. Yep it is BW legal. I have edited my defence below:

    3. The defendant entered the car park on the 27th August 2022 with the intention of parking up and paying to do so, as they have done so multiple times in the past in the same car park. Upon entering the car park there were no available bays. The defendant decided to wait to see if a bay would become available as this has been the case when using the car park in the past. After what the defendant deemed to be a reasonable waiting time, no bays became free and so the defendant decided to the leave the car park to park elsewhere. At no point was the vehicle parked in any bay and nor did the defendant leave the vehicle at any stage. Had a parking space been available the defendant would of course have paid and displayed. As a result of the vehicle not being in a parking bay there is clearly no financial loss to the claimant and usage of the car park was to no personal gain to the defendant who was in the area to shop in the neighbouring high street for what is usually a few hours yet left the car park after a few minutes. As mentioned previously the defendant has used this car park numerous times without any issue in the past which shows there was no intention of misusing the car park. With all of the points above it is the defendants case that the claim is dismissed.


  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 57,967
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    Forumite
    You haven't mentioned anything about the PoC being woefully adequate and not stating the specific breach of alleged parking terms. The CEL v Chan case apples here. The claimant has said, you breached the terms displayed at the site, but has not specifically stated what those terms were, nor which ones were allegedly breached.
    For example, are they claiming the defendant parked at all, or for too long or failed to make payment, or failed to display a disabled person's badge, or failed to park only on a Tuesday, or parked a red car in a place where only blue cars are permitted, etcetera?

    This is what C-m meant when she said use, "All of it" 

    You have mentioned, "no financial loss," but that won't fly because of the Beavis case in 2015. You do need to state that the defendant gained no benefit since they did not park, therefore no contract was formed.
    It is trite law that a contract is concluded when an offer is made, is considered, then accepted.

    Whilst an offer of parking may have been made, and may even have been considered, the defendant did not actually park therefore there was no acceptance of the offer (contract), therefore no parking terms (the contract) were accepted, therefore there can have been no breach of contract.

    Whilst this was from a few years ago, this case is still relevant, (except the cpmment about no loss).

    Parking Prankster: Waiting for a space is not Parking. ParkingEye lose in court. Beware of snakes at Fistral Beach (parking-prankster.blogspot.com)


    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,237
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Forumite
    I don't think Chan applies here.  Just all of the Template Defence.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • I don't think Chan applies here.  Just all of the Template Defence.
    Hi all, Looking for some help please. I have sent my defence twice to the email provided in the defence thread but I've had no bounce back email and there are no updates showing in MCOL.

    I've tried sending the email twice and waited a few days but still nothing.

    In some of the threads I've read through, others have also not had any bounceback but for them MCOL has updated with "your defence has been received" but this is not the case with me.

     Any ideas?



  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 57,967
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    Forumite
    Try sending it from a different email address/email provider. 
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • Hi everyone,

    I'm starting to get worried as MCOL has still not updated despite me sending my defence 3 times. The first 2 times I didn't receive an acknowledgment, however following a 3rd attempt on the 18th December from a different email address I did get a below acknowledgment so thought all was good but MCOL still hasn't been updated to say my defence has been received. I understand it's the holiday period and judging by the below email they seem to have a backlog, so do I just wait for MCOL to update?

    Thank you for your email which may be in relation to delays you have experienced with our service. I am sorry to hear you are unhappy with the service provided by us. We understand the delays that you are currently experiencing can be frustrating and fall short of the standards you rightly expect of us. As a public service, we record all complaints and regularly review points that are raised to improve our service.

     

    This service is currently undergoing a significant transition as we take on new work and expand to meet the growing needs of our customers. This means we have a large backlog of work to clear.

     

    The service is focusing on reducing the volume of work in priority order and to do this we are currently prioritising resources to tackle case progression work as opposed to dealing with chase up correspondence, so we ask for your continued patience and trust that your case will be dealt with in due course.  We are aiming to recover our position by the end of the September.

     

    The service has also recently introduced new procedures to make sure work is being processed as soon as possible. Please be assured that this is a result of feedback received from our customers, as we are actively looking to improve the service being offered. These procedures have seen a reduction in processing time already and further improvements are expected in the coming weeks. If you would like to track our performance please click on the link below which will take you to our latest available information.

     

    The Business Centre Performance update is published weekly

     

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     

     

    Thank you for emailing the County Court Business Centre, please accept this as a receipt of your email.  Where a response is required we will endeavour to respond to your email within 10 working days (please do not re-send duplicate messages)

     If you’ve submitted a complaint, please note that the Court will aim to reply within 10 working days. (please do not duplicate complaints)

    You should not come to any of our court and tribunal buildings if:

    you have coronavirus symptoms
    you have tested positive for COVID-19 or are waiting for a test result
    you have been instructed by the NHS to self-isolate
    If we’re expecting you, let us know as soon as possible if you’re not coming to the court or tribunal.

     

    If you should have any queries please forward to [email protected]

     

    The County Court Business Centre is a separate entity to Northampton Combined Court and therefore only deal with CCBC and Traffic Enforcement queries.   We do not deal with Family, Probate or Bankruptcy matters.


    Guidance is accessible online 24 hours a day at
     
    Court staff are not legally trained.  If your query is in relation to whether you have a valid claim, we will be unable to comment on this matter.  You may wish to seek professional legal advice from a Solicitor, Legal Executive or Citizens Advice Bureau. 

    Please note that attachments must be sent in a format supported by the software used by the specified court to which it is sent.  These formats are listed on Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service website.  Attachments sent to a specified court in a format not listed will be treated as not having been received by the court.

    The time of receipt of a transmission will be recorded electronically on the transmission as it is received.

    If a transmission is received after 4pm any document attached to the transmission will be treated as filed on the next day the court office is open.

    If you are having problems completing an electronic form please visit the below link, it contains useful information about using Adobe which may be of assistance:

     

    To view an up-to-date list of our current processing and response times please visit


     

    The office is closed on all bank holidays.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 341.7K Banking & Borrowing
  • 249.7K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.1K Spending & Discounts
  • 233.8K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 606K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 172.5K Life & Family
  • 246.7K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.8K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards