Help! Have I brought a problem property?

Benh86123

Dustyevsky said:

Nowhere in your posts have you mentioned how old your house is. Many older houses do tend to come with additional features, like gaps at the wall/ceiling junctions and floors which give a little or show gaps at the skirtings.

We were in our last house, a 30s semi, for 21 years. In that time we stuck coving up to cover the wall/ceiling gaps, and as for the bouncy dining room floor, we told the kids, “Don't run in here, or else!” Those measures seemed to suffice. That house had 25cm foundations, and it was badly built, but 15 years on from when we sold it, it's still there!

It was built around 1970

stuart45

Is there any movement showing in the external brickwork?
Cracks at the ceiling/wall junctions are quite common. It's where different materials meet and have different expansion/contraction rates.

Benh86123

stuart45 said:

Is there any movement showing in the external brickwork?
Cracks at the ceiling/wall junctions are quite common. It's where different materials meet and have different expansion/contraction rates.

We only moved in 2 weeks ago and had a survey done. Surveyor said no signs of movement or subsidence.

KiKi

Hi Ben, totally appreciate your anxiety on it - I was the same when I moved in. I'd see cracks and worry, then marry that up with floors that bounce or slope at the side, and convince myself it was subsidence.  Add to that the fact that a skirting board might be coming away from a wall, or that a stud wall isn't exactly at 90 degrees to the floor and OMG, the house was falling down.  But of course, it wasn't.  And isn't.  It's been standing 55 years and hasn't fallen down yet.  

I've had to learn to not worry about things that look bad to me; lots of people who know about stuff have reassured me it's not an issue!  I've also had to learn that google is not your friend on this one - it will instill fear into you with the things people post, especially companies specialising in it who will benefit from your anxiety.

What I've learnt - very much in layman's terms - is that houses move all the time, from temperature, rain, ground movement etc.  Materials in the house contract and expand, and therefore crack, especially where different materials meet, like walls meeting ceilings.  Plaster cracks with changes in temperature.  It's all totally normal.  If you can put your finger inside a crack, that's when you want to get someone in to take a look!  But the crack you've posted is absolutely nothing to be worried about at all, I've had worse! 

My engineered wood flooring bounces in places.  It's been glued onto boards on a concrete floor, which isn't flat.  So where the floor wasn't fully flat or dipped - and people have constantly walked over it or the sun has heated it up - the glue has failed and the wood flooring has popped up a bit.  So it's bouncy, but there's still a solid floor underneath it somewhere!

If your house had real subsidence problems, you'd have step-shaped cracks through the mortar on the outside of your house, very visible.  You'd be able to fit your fingers into the cracks in your house.  And if that did happen - which is extremely unlikely - that's what insurance is for.  And it won't just collapse or fall down, it happens over time. 

And even if you did see step shaped cracks in the mortar on the outside, it doesn't necessarily mean subsidence, it could just be movement - for example, if you had those cracks above a lintel (the concrete / steel / wood bar that sits above a window to give it structural stability), it could just mean that the lintel is wooden, old and starting to bend and needs to be replaced.

Trust your survey, enjoy your house, and be reassured that you bought insurance to deal with anything that might happen - and it's unlikely to!  Whenever I feel that anxiety creeping up again about the same thing I treat it like a person: I tell it to go away, tell it that I'm not going to let it ruin my enjoyment of my home, and I tell it that I won't allow it to make me fearful.  It helps me, it might help you as well.

HTH

Albermarle

Trust your survey, enjoy your house, and be reassured that you bought insurance to deal with anything that might happen - and it's unlikely to!

According to some of the posts on this similar, but not identical thread, your buildings insurance does not cover you for all issues. Problems arising from poor construction techniques, or lack of maintenance are apparently not covered.
No sure whether to pull out of house purchase — MoneySavingExpert Forum

OP - This is not relevant to your minor issue with plaster cracks, but just an interesting general point that I was not aware of until very recently.

FreeBear

KiKi said: If your house had real subsidence problems, you'd have step-shaped cracks through the mortar on the outside of your house, very visible.  You'd be able to fit your fingers into the cracks in your house.  And if that did happen - which is extremely unlikely - that's what insurance is for.  And it won't just collapse or fall down, it happens over time.

Step shaped cracks in the mortar joints between bricks are generally nothing to worry about. Cracks that go through the middle of bricks could be indicative of a more serious problem - But some types of brick (calcium silicate in particular) are prone to cracking without any structural defect being present.

The location of any cracking can also point to the route cause - At ground level, it might be an indicator of subsidence. Above doors & windows, there may be an issue with a lintel. At the top of a building, cracks around the corners could be a result of roof spread. Long horizontal cracks at regularly spaced intervals up a wall might be a sign of wall tie failure and should be investigated sooner rather than later.

Internally, long straight hairline cracks in the ceilings are just down to slight movement between adjacent sheets of plasterboard - A particular problem if the boards have been nailed up rather than fixed with screws. If nailed, you can also get nails popping. Easily dealt with by driving in a few screws and slapping a bit of filler in. Around the perimeter of a room, coving is often used to hide the join between ceiling & wall and mask any cracks that do form - Also means the plasterer can get away with a sloppy finish in the corner.

I've got some long cracks in a few ceilings here that run across the room at various angles. This is because the ceilings are constructed with lath & lime plaster. Some of the nails have rusted over the last 95 years, and heavy footsteps upstairs haven't helped. Removing the plaster & laths is a very, very messy job, but it gets rid of the artex in the process. If paying someone to do the work, it can get expensive, but removing the ceiling is something that can be DIY'd as it doesn't require any skill. Once replaced with plasterboard & skimmed, a small profile coving can be put up to hide any cracks that might form around the perimeter.

Elliott.T123

We had a ground floor extension at the start of the year which involved removing an external wall and an internal load bearing wall plus making 2 doorways in another external wall. Obviously we had huge amounts of very large steel added back in but you should see some of the cracks on the first floor now while the house settles into its new position. 

There will always be a small amount of movement and anytime two wall/materials/surfaces meet that is the natural point for cracks to show. As long as they aren't getting significantly worse you have no issues at all.

Benh86123

KiKi said:

Hi Ben, totally appreciate your anxiety on it - I was the same when I moved in. I'd see cracks and worry, then marry that up with floors that bounce or slope at the side, and convince myself it was subsidence.  Add to that the fact that a skirting board might be coming away from a wall, or that a stud wall isn't exactly at 90 degrees to the floor and OMG, the house was falling down.  But of course, it wasn't.  And isn't.  It's been standing 55 years and hasn't fallen down yet.  

I've had to learn to not worry about things that look bad to me; lots of people who know about stuff have reassured me it's not an issue!  I've also had to learn that google is not your friend on this one - it will instill fear into you with the things people post, especially companies specialising in it who will benefit from your anxiety.

What I've learnt - very much in layman's terms - is that houses move all the time, from temperature, rain, ground movement etc.  Materials in the house contract and expand, and therefore crack, especially where different materials meet, like walls meeting ceilings.  Plaster cracks with changes in temperature.  It's all totally normal.  If you can put your finger inside a crack, that's when you want to get someone in to take a look!  But the crack you've posted is absolutely nothing to be worried about at all, I've had worse! 

My engineered wood flooring bounces in places.  It's been glued onto boards on a concrete floor, which isn't flat.  So where the floor wasn't fully flat or dipped - and people have constantly walked over it or the sun has heated it up - the glue has failed and the wood flooring has popped up a bit.  So it's bouncy, but there's still a solid floor underneath it somewhere!

If your house had real subsidence problems, you'd have step-shaped cracks through the mortar on the outside of your house, very visible.  You'd be able to fit your fingers into the cracks in your house.  And if that did happen - which is extremely unlikely - that's what insurance is for.  And it won't just collapse or fall down, it happens over time. 

And even if you did see step shaped cracks in the mortar on the outside, it doesn't necessarily mean subsidence, it could just be movement - for example, if you had those cracks above a lintel (the concrete / steel / wood bar that sits above a window to give it structural stability), it could just mean that the lintel is wooden, old and starting to bend and needs to be replaced.

Trust your survey, enjoy your house, and be reassured that you bought insurance to deal with anything that might happen - and it's unlikely to!  Whenever I feel that anxiety creeping up again about the same thing I treat it like a person: I tell it to go away, tell it that I'm not going to let it ruin my enjoyment of my home, and I tell it that I won't allow it to make me fearful.  It helps me, it might help you as well.

HTH

Thank you so much for your comment it has really put my mind at rest 😊