Buying a house, loft master bedroom not to building regs - what should we do?

tryingtobuyahouse

Hi there

I’ve never posted on a forum before, but have been relying heavily on the MSE forum recently and various threads to guide us through a first-time house purchase, which my partner and I have found extremely helpful.

We recently had an offer excepted on a mid-terraced house built in 1850, it appeared in a good condition throughout with a two-storey extension to the rear and a bedroom in the loft which has a WC and built-in wardrobes. It was advertised as a 3-bed house with the loft bedroom described as the 'Principle Bedroom'. It is like a little Tardis, over four floors which includes a basement which is useable but of course not ’habitable’.

I received a call from our surveyor this week ahead of our independent Level 3 RICS report being written up and he said that overall the house wasn’t too bad but the big issue is that the loft conversion does not adhere to building regs. In his opinion it cannot be sold as a 3-bed house, it is nothing more than a 2-bed with a posh loft.

The solicitor’s searches are due back soon, when I relayed this initial information to them over the phone they said we would just need to wait to see what comes back from the searches first and that the seller could probably just cover the issue with indemnity insurance. From research online I can see that that doesn’t really help us, and kind of misses the point. We fully intend on using the master bedroom as a bedroom and my concern now is if it is structurally safe. We’re not keen on the idea of spending a lot of money to get the loft bedroom up to regs but we are wondering if it is worth the investment.

Our stance is that we will only proceed with the sale if the loft bedroom is sorted out to meet building regs as per what was advertised and what we put an offer in to buy. 

We are buying the house from David Wilson Homes as the previous owners sold it via part exchange. David Wilson Homes are wanting a very quick sale. I don’t know if this is a good thing or not. The house was taken off the market back in August and our viewing was cancelled, we were told the sellers were doing some building work to the basement and it would be back on for sale in the future. When it came back on it was on for £10k less and we viewed it and put in an offer. We are first time buyers with a mortgage but we live with a friend so there are no deadlines for us to move or be in by. We are paying £220,00 for the house so it is cheap as we can’t afford too much more than this with current mortgage rates.

Any advise on this would be so helpful, please be kind as I am already worried that we are naive first-time buyers navigating what seems to be a marketplace full of people trying to take advantage of our lack of knowledge. Should we walk away, should we make a bold ultimatum (we have nothing to lose expect the money we have paid on surveys and initial legal fees already), or is there a chance that a housing developer may well go in and do the kind of major works that need doing to get the loft to meet modern building regs. Surely if not with us, they will continue to meet this problem until they find someone who doesn’t care that the master bedroom is not a legit and useable room?

Thanks!

GDB2222

Not built to regs matters more in some ways than others. For example, if the insulation is sub standard, it will cost money to heat, but it won’t kill you. On the other hand, if it is unsafe in some way, it really could kill you. 

You really need to get the survey report and see what it says. I Can’t see the point of indemnity insurance, as it won’t pay extra heating bills or save you in the case of a fire. 

GDB2222

And you need to understand why it wasn’t built to regs. Taller joists means less headroom, effectively making the room smaller. The same with better insulation.   

user1977

When was the conversion done (roughly)?

I would have expected this to be covered off somehow before they accepted it for part-exchange - are they at least offering an indemnity policy?

Albermarle

I received a call from our surveyor this week ahead of our independent Level 3 RICS report being written up and he said that overall the house wasn’t too bad but the big issue is that the loft conversion does not adhere to building regs

In what way does it not adhere to building regulations?

We are buying the house from David Wilson Homes as the previous owners sold it via part exchange. David Wilson Homes are wanting a very quick sale. 

It seems unlikely that a known building company would knowingly sell a house that was potentially dangerous. However they may not even be aware of any issues, or consider them trivial.

propertyrental

When was the loft conversion done? Building Regs today (or yesterday) are far more exacting than 10 years ago. And 30 years ago probably didn't exist at all (someone here will know the date).

Not complying with today's BR standards  does not make it illegal, provided it complied at the time the conversion was done.

And enforcement of BRs by the council can only be done within 4 years of the conversion - so if it was longer ago than that there's no enforcement risk.

But as others have said, a lot also depends on the way in which it was constructed and the way in which it is non-compliant. A safety issue eg inadequate escape route in case of fire? Insufficient extra support to the floor to support the extra weight (bed, plumbing, wardrobe, occupant etc)? An insulation issue eg inadequate roof insulation leading to potentially huge heat-loss? None of these can be covered by indemnity insurance - only you can decide if they are acceptable.

user1977

In general, I wouldn't expect an 1850s house to comply with any of today's building regulations...

Section62

propertyrental said:

When was the loft conversion done? Building Regs today (or yesterday) are far more exacting than 10 years ago. And 30 years ago probably didn't exist at all (someone here will know the date).

Some would say Building Regs started in 1667 with the appropriately titled 'An Act for rebuilding the City of London'.

For practical purposes 1965 can be taken as the start of a national scheme - before then there were local regulations that varied widely between areas.  (Scotland got in two years earlier, in 1963)

pinkshoes

It entirely depends which regulation is not met and when this extension was built.

Lots of websites will tell you the requirements:
https://www.fmb.org.uk/find-a-builder/ultimate-guides-to-home-renovation/loft-conversions-the-ultimate-guide.html#:~:text=The building regulations require a,the amount of work involved.

If it's just a head height thing then personally it wouldn't matter so much. If it's insulation then prepare for bigger heating bills.

If it's to do with not having the correct fire exits or fire doors, or anything to do with fire safety then I'd absolutely want it sorting out, as I certainly wouldn't be sleeping in a room that doesn't meet fire regulations!

silvercar

pinkshoes said:

If it's to do with not having the correct fire exits or fire doors, or anything to do with fire safety then I'd absolutely want it sorting out, as I certainly wouldn't be sleeping in a room that doesn't meet fire regulations!

Still the fact that regulations change over time. Our bedroom wouldn’t meet current fire regulations as the window opening isn’t that wide. It passes regulations because when we changed the windows the new opening was larger than previously. It wouldn’t be flagged in a survey because surveyors seem to concentrate on lofts more than standard 2 floor homes.

MultiFuelBurner

Just ask for a reduction presenting the surveyor findings with your new offer.

David Wilson Homes want this off their books as soon as possible and knowing there is an issue and it isn't worth as much as they marketed it for and that every survey should.pick this up they will accept the reduction.

This is your chance to save a hell of a lot of money and something we did with Barrett Homes on a house we purchased from them as one that was part ex's to them.

How much do two bedrooms go for in that area without a lift conversion then add what the loft conversion is worth to you and present your offer through your solicitors with the survey evidence.