PCN notice not received, debt collection letter is first contact

Red_Shift

Hi
Have read all through the Newbies thread but only discovered this forum later in the process. I'm very sorry if this is covered but I couldn't quite figure it out.

Details:

- Received debt collection letter from BW legal about PCN for driving through the North Gatwick drop off zone without paying. They're trying to collect £170.
- We saw the signs and we didn't drive down the road they were on because we were dropping off at the sofitel hotel instead so thought it didn't apply.
- Contacted BW legal to say we challenge the claim and hadn't received PCN or reminder letter so needed proof. They have now sent through 2 letters from NCP that we never received. (Your thread says to never call them, have I already shot myself in the foot or is that just about it being a waste of time?)
- Original PCN states fee would be £15 if paid within 14 days since it is the first time otherwise the usual £60, then £100 fee applies.
- We have since investigated with the hotel and despite the signage not being clear, they confirmed it does apply to their drop off area as well.

So I don't know if I can actually appeal the charge per se, but I do want to challenge that they are now trying to collect £170 instead of the £15 I would have paid if given the actual chance to appeal.

In terms of step one about complaining, would that be a complaint to Gatwick or NCP? Or have I already missed the chance to do that?

The NCP online appeal process won't let me do anything because the PCN is more than 28 days out of date.

If I read the Newbies thread correctly, my next step is to go through the POPLA appeal process but I just wanted to check since I am less contesting the charge but rather the fact that it has been increased dramatically without giving me the chance to sort it out.

Any help would be great. Thanks

Le_Kirk

The usual reason for not receiving the original PCN is because your V5C is not up-to-date (or could it be a lease/hire car?)  Don't guess but check your log book.  Debt collector letters will find you because the DRA do a soft trace.  Read some other Gatwick threads and see what other posters did.

Red_Shift

Le_Kirk said:

The usual reason for not receiving the original PCN is because your V5C is not up-to-date (or could it be a lease/hire car?)  Don't guess but check your log book.  Debt collector letters will find you because the DRA do a soft trace.  Read some other Gatwick threads and see what other posters did.

V5C is definitely up to date and it is my car.
I demanded that the debt collection company email me evidence of the PCN. They sent me two (original and reminder) and both show that they have the correct address written at the top of the letter, I just didn't receive either one in the post.
They can't prove that they actually sent the letter, just as I also can't prove that I never received it.
Whole thing seems like a scam but I don't know how to get out of it.

Red_Shift

Small update: I have continued reading through multiple posts on this forum, relating specifically to the Gatwick North problem, thanks for the advice there @Le_Kirk.

So I have now complained to Gatwick via their portal and used pretty much the exact wording that @Coupon-mad suggested in one of them.

Should I already start the POPLA process or wait to see how Gatwick respond? 

Coupon-mad

You can't use POPLA. Too late.

You realise there's no keeper liability?

Red_Shift

Coupon-mad said:

You can't use POPLA. Too late.

You realise there's no keeper liability?

ah ok.

yes, i do now that i've read more of your useful posts. I really really wish I had come here before ever speaking to those blood suckers at bw legal. I don't think I ever referred to "the driver" on the phone, might have said a bunch of "we didn't know/we did this" type thing. 1) I actually wasn't driving the car myself. think I can still use that angle?

2) Thankfully I came here before I put anything in writing so I have complained to gatwick about the signage, the lack of easy payment provision, the scam nature of the escalating fees and I offered that I might be willing to pay the original £15 if it turned out the sofitel drop off was included in the scam zone.

3) Should I also find a way to write to NCP with the non-Pofa compliance and BPA reference complaint? Their portal won't let me do it but I see you have mentioned others have found a way so I can search these message boards for how people did it. This is where I copy in the sara person that I've seen mentioned?

4) And then I should also write to my local MP or just the gatwick MP? Essentially the same content but I think i've seen a template for that as well?

Coupon-mad

Tell BW Legal this by email:

Dear Sirs,

Your ref: xxxxxxx

I am the registered keeper but I wasn't driving the car.  Kindly revert to NCP with the following:

I have researched the PoFA 2012, which I realise does not apply at Gatwick Airport.  NCP must cancel and erase my data, as I am not the liable party and I decline their belated request to name the driver.

Had NCP bothered to actually post the 'ghost PCNs' x2 (original and reminder revealed in the SAR reply but which miraculously BOTH never arrived - or existed...?) I'd have told them the above fact and they could have avoided this waste of time threatogram model.

Put up or shut up.

If you persist in processing my data and in the event of filing a court claim, take note that I will file a Part 20 counterclaim for not less than £500.  This will be claimed as damages for distress arising as a result of clear breaches of the DPA 2018 and/or the Protection From Harassment Act 1997.

I will rely upon the case of Simon Clay v Civil Enforcement Ltd and similar cases that have succeeded.  Cancel the PCN and crawl back under your respective stones forthwith

Preferably tell your client from me to crack on with cleaning up their act to comply with the incoming statutory Code of Practice.  Groundbreaking improvements would include issuing future Notices of Parking Charge properly and engaging fairly, avoiding involving bulk litigators like you lot in this 'extorting money from motorists' model outed by the DLUHC as a market failure.

As for you: I suggest you stop obsessively reading parking forums (quoting influential MSE posters in your template WS is a constant source of amusement!) and go back to chasing shadows for phone contract and energy providers.

yours faithfully,

Red_Shift

@Coupon-mad - done! i did remove a couple of your more inflammatory points such as "put up or shut up" but basically just copied and pasted what you said. brilliant 

so, i've done the complaint thing, which sounds like it has the best chance of working in my case. 
I've the email to bw legal. i guess that won't achieve anything but it was satisfying!

do i now just wait to see if the complaint is successful or i receive a court claim? or is there anything else proactive that I can do to get the charge squashed or reduced to the £15?

Coupon-mad

It will achieve cancellation. It has to, because they know there's no keeper liability.

You won't get a claim and won't pay a penny.

Red_Shift

I will let you know. Thanks.

By the way, I just got a response from Gatwick airport following my complaint that I used suggested wording for from a different post on this forum. It was not at all helpful, see below..

Dear Mr XXXX

I'm sorry to read about these difficulties. 
 
NCP manage the drop off charge process for us and they can be contacted by using this link xxxxxxxxxx or telephone 0345 050 7080 making sure to choose option 4. 

Kind regards

Shannon
Customer Services


I have replied and asked (demanded) that they give slightly more of a s*** than that and doubled down on the request that they intervene on my behalf to stop NCP from trying to extort me for £170 over what would have been an initial £5 or £15 fee.

Is the official BPA complaint with Sara Roberts still ongoing by the way or has that been resolved?

Coupon-mad

The complaint about NCP was knocked back by the BPA saying:

Gatwick Drop-Off Zones

Thanks also for sharing your concern regarding the drop-off zones at Gatwick which David Carrod previously alerted us to, resulting in us opening an investigation – reference BPA-032489. This parking charge has been cancelled, this case has been closed, with no Code breach identified.

I would like to make the following observations:

• You are concerned that there is no ‘consideration period’ in place at this location and that this is a breach of the BPA Code. This is not correct, and I would draw your attention to Clause 13.4 which says (I have highlighted the most pertinent point):

13.4 Unauthorised motorists will not be entitled to the minimum time period of 5 minutes for a consideration period in spaces designated for specific users e.g Blue Badge holders, pick up/drop off or where parking is prohibited such as hatched areas in front of emergency exits, or on entry and exit ramps etc.

• You contend that the signage at the location is inadequate. Our of our Area Managers and our Customer Service Manager have conducted a thorough site inspection at the Gatwick drop off zone and confirmed that the signage at the site is plentiful and compliant with the BPA’s Code of Practice.
• There are concerns that a motorist may get lost due to the stress of airport driving and we can understand how this can happen. A motorist could find him/herself in the drop-off zone with no intention of depositing a traveller – they simply need to drive through. The length of the drop-off zones is 356 meters (South) and 188 meters (North) and at 20mph can be traversed in 40 and 21 seconds respectively. NCP will not issue a PCN within this time frame.

• If a motorist feels that they have been unfairly issued with a PCN at this location, they should follow the established process and appeal to NCP. We will of course consider any correspondence sent to us, but we will not open an investigation unless further material evidence is supplied and each case will be reviewed separately.

I hope this is helpful

Kind Regards

 Sara Roberts

Head of Conformity Assessment Body Transition

British Parking Association