Prosperous & Creative Soul & MFW Year 3

Blackcats

There is such a lot for you to think about.
For what it's worth there are some thoughts from me 
overall there is a lot of uncertainty about your sale and your purchase.  This middle period between the excitement of making and receiving offers and the excitement of moving is always where the uncertainty and stress accrues.
I think that to compensate for that uncertainty you are trying to work out some more certain scenarios - pension pots, emergency funds etc.  this is a safety net for you when you are unable to get clarity on what is happening.

your purchasers - I feel suspicious that after such a prolonged time they haven't got a valuation date booked in.  I understand that first time buyers need guidance through the process but this feels (to me) abnormally slow.  I wonder if they have always wanted to drag the process out until the end of January and didn't want to say that or if they are struggling with a mortgage offer?  I don't think that they have spent much money yet so they aren't heavily financially invested in buying yet.  They might have a wobble when they have a survey done and try to re-negotiate which skews all of your figures.

your purchase - surveys always throw up issues and mostly they are able to be resolved.  However, it seems to me that the survey report and in particular the comment about over paying is making you lose confidence in the new house.  I'm probably wrong but your posts read more like you are trying to find reasons to justify pulling out of the purchase than thinking about resolution for tge issues.  Trying to make yourself not want the house any more?

this week's viewing - I do think it probably makes sense to view another property but be prepared to be confused.  You might end up with the halo/horns effect.  The current purchase is seen in the light of its known "faults" and so the new house ends up with a halo effect around it because of price and no current knowledge of any issues it might have.  If it is significantly cheaper this will be for a reason and in the long term are you ok with whatever is behind the lower price.

It's great that you are able to share with your MSE friends because we all want the best for you and we all have views and thoughts that we hope help in some way.

EssexHebridean

It's a quandary isn't it. One thing that does occur to me is that if the original house was actually "the one" you'd be thinking of ways around the issues raised in the survey, and working out what could be done about them. I know with our place, when we were waiting for the survey report we were both thinking through all the things that "could" come up and trying to work out what if anything might be deal-breakers - in the event, although there was some stuff mentioned, none of it was particularly concerning - some questions over the roof and some timbers but having had a good look ourselves now we're reassured that those were surveyor "worst case" doomsaying rather than significant issues for "right now". There was almost nothing that we thought up other than subsidence which would have led to us walking away - because we loved the house SO much. Ours did come in on valuation below the offer price - not all that much, thankfully, and it wasn't an issue as our LTV was going to be plenty high enough. we also reminded ourselves that the valuation was a remote one, and so was based on the visibility of what the house  was, rathe than what it has been made into - so would have disregarded the extension, the office and the giant shed! 

The viewing on the other house is definitely a god idea - particularly if you get a good vibe from it on the listing. Remember though you aren't going to know that the hedge cutting issue will be manageable until you are physically in - it's not something you can ask about ahead of time really, and even if the seller states in response to an enquiry through the solicitors that the neighbour has always kept the hedge trimmed to date, that could all change if the hedge-owner's abilities to do such things alter, or if they move on and someone else is responsible. In other words, try to take the view out of the equation and focus on the house itself when you visit.  

It's a tricky one for sure. I think you perhaps need to scrutinise your own feelings around your current purchase more generally though - and try to work out whether it is that you are concerned about the financial aspects alone, or if you are having reservations about the house for any other reasons. 

In one way I would say if it is the latter, and you are leaning towards pulling out, then it would be fairest to do it sooner, but that might create a bigger wobble with your buyers - so in fact, you would do better perhaps just to go with a straight "I'm no longer buying that property, but I am now going ahead with  buying this one" so there isn't a gap where your position looks uncertain to them. 

savingholmes

Thanks Blackcats and EH

Blackcats said:

overall there is a lot of uncertainty about your sale and your purchase.  This middle period between the excitement of making and receiving offers and the excitement of moving is always where the uncertainty and stress accrues.
I think that to compensate for that uncertainty you are trying to work out some more certain scenarios - pension pots, emergency funds etc.  this is a safety net for you when you are unable to get clarity on what is happening

I've talked it through with a few people as well as posting on here. I'm viewing the new house tomorrow - and then will have a better idea of where I stand. I agree with BC that pensions, EF etc are more certain and tangible. They are a huge part of my 6.5 year plan to see if I can get to FI by age 60. I am someone that naturally works out my absolutely worst case, rock bottom scenario and my best one before working out the more likely ones in-between. At the moment I can only focus on the controllable elements.

Blackcats said:

your purchase - surveys always throw up issues and mostly they are able to be resolved.  However, it seems to me that the survey report and in particular the comment about over paying is making you lose confidence in the new house.  I'm probably wrong but your posts read more like you are trying to find reasons to justify pulling out of the purchase than thinking about resolution for the issues.  Trying to make yourself not want the house any more?

If it was £5-10K I could live with that - but verbally he said £25-30K which really worried me - even if the final report said £20K. It is a huge deal to move 50-60 miles away from my current location and work. I love the views but it was at the far edge of what I could consider commuting - even if it was one day a week. She wasn't prepared to meet me part way on a price reduction and threatened to immediately pull out. The EA actually rang back to say she would give me a week or so to make up my mind given it was coming up to Xmas. I felt like he'd had to twist her arm to get that. I don't respond well to ultimatums which is what that felt like. I then also learned from my solicitors that she/her solicitors had failed to answer most of their enquiries which was another red flag. Most of the things wrong with the house are fixable probably for less than £5K - other than potentially the floor in the entrance hall which may not be fixable at all. Given I trip over nothing that is a worry. I was also planning to put in a new kitchen - so extra expense.

I'm definitely someone that can argue pretty much any side - so you're right that there's an element of me talking myself out of the house. But that feels appropriate given the financial risk involved - for what I'm buying - the valuer basically said I was over paying by 7.5-10% which is a lot for me at this stage of life.

Blackcats said:

this week's viewing - I do think it probably makes sense to view another property but be prepared to be confused.  You might end up with the halo/horns effect.  The current purchase is seen in the light of its known "faults" and so the new house ends up with a halo effect around it because of price and no current knowledge of any issues it might have.  If it is significantly cheaper this will be for a reason and in the long term are you ok with whatever is behind the lower price.

The logical next step if I can't negotiate a lower price with the current seller is therefore to look for a house that is more affordable particularly if my buyers also seek to renegotiate following a valuation / survey. Hence tomorrow's viewing. I do get the halo / horns effect you are saying - just like with new recruits versus old ones - but the risk feels lower because the house itself is lower value. When I offered on the one I did in the summer - I did see indicative values around where the valuer put it but talked myself up because of changes I thought she'd made - only to find that many were put in badly without building regs by her predecessor according to the survey. The ones I've looked at online for tomorrow's viewing are more in line with its current price so I'm hoping that therefore it should be closer to its real value.

The significantly cheaper part is - that it is in a completely different area. The current property is in a small town in a rural location - the other one is on the outskirts of a city but with rural views spread out for miles in front of it. It is much better for commuting to work or family than the other - and I looked at the house next door early September and was devasted when Sis and BIL highlighted the issues with the neighbouring property. I do therefore have some idea of what to look out for - and if needed may be able to persuade them to come and view it as it's at least half an hour closer to them than the other one which felt unreasonable to ask them to view.

Blackcats said:

your purchasers - I feel suspicious that after such a prolonged time they haven't got a valuation date booked in.  I understand that first time buyers need guidance through the process but this feels (to me) abnormally slow.  I wonder if they have always wanted to drag the process out until the end of January and didn't want to say that or if they are struggling with a mortgage offer?  I don't think that they have spent much money yet so they aren't heavily financially invested in buying yet.  They might have a wobble when they have a survey done and try to re-negotiate which skews all of your figures.

I think they are very slow. They made their offer conditional on a no later than end of January move date - so as you say may be they were always planning to take this long. The EA assumed it was because of the high volume of gifted deposits. Yes I'm aware of the negotiating risk. 

savingholmes

EssexHebridean said:

It's a quandary isn't it. One thing that does occur to me is that if the original house was actually "the one" you'd be thinking of ways around the issues raised in the survey, and working out what could be done about them. I know with our place, when we were waiting for the survey report .... There was almost nothing that we thought up other than subsidence which would have led to us walking away - because we loved the house SO much. Ours did come in on valuation below the offer price - not all that much, thankfully....

I've been second guessing myself throughout the buying process - a huge part of it - due to the fact I'm buying a house for the first time on my own (other than buying Ex out of this one) and in a new area that I know little about. I am therefore giving myself grace for my natural wobbles - particularly given that part of my health conditions includes a lack of tolerance for uncertainty.

I am a more pragmatic person and therefore - given the uncertainty of buying in the wild west that is the UK property market - I have had to take the view there are probably several "the ones" and that if this one doesn't work out another will come along. I am an impulsive person by nature tempered by a strong streak of "risk averse". I am really pleased your purchase worked out for you.

When we bought this home originally it was downvalued within a year or two after purchase which I remember feeling was scary given we went from say 25% equity to more like 15%. It was a great size and in an excellent location compared with schools, bus networks and commutes etc. When I bought this place off Ex it was downvalued compared to where the market was at the time - and on that occasion I was happy to take the risk for the security and comfort staying here offered then. This time my house criteria are looser in terms of location - as long as there's space for my young adult kids to visit and for me to make art and there are good views.

EssexHebridean said:

The viewing on the other house is definitely a god idea - particularly if you get a good vibe from it on the listing. Remember though you aren't going to know that the hedge cutting issue will be manageable until you are physically in - it's not something you can ask about ahead of time really, and even if the seller states in response to an enquiry through the solicitors that the neighbour has always kept the hedge trimmed to date, that could all change if the hedge-owner's abilities to do such things alter, or if they move on and someone else is responsible. In other words, try to take the view out of the equation and focus on the house itself when you visit.  

It's a tricky one for sure. I think you perhaps need to scrutinise your own feelings around your current purchase more generally though - and try to work out whether it is that you are concerned about the financial aspects alone, or if you are having reservations about the house for any other reasons. 

In one way I would say if it is the latter, and you are leaning towards pulling out, then it would be fairest to do it sooner, but that might create a bigger wobble with your buyers - so in fact, you would do better perhaps just to go with a straight "I'm no longer buying that property, but I am now going ahead with  buying this one" so there isn't a gap where your position looks uncertain to them. 

I can't take the view out of the question as it's one of the biggest drivers for the move - to have a nice view and not be overlooked. I visited that street August, September and this week - so I know the hedge situation to a degree but yes there are no guarantees. The neighbour's house was the first one I cared enough to ask my sis to view with me.

I will see what tomorrow brings. I'm not going to rush to update either party until I know whether the seller of that house is likely to move quickly enough to keep my buyer on the hook. I agree I don't want my buyer to feel uncertain either so it would be better to only update them once I know what I'm doing.

beanielou

I certainly dont envy you.

lucielle

Hope tomorrow gives you some answers. 

L

try_harder

So sorry to hear that things are so difficult for you at the minute 

savingholmes

Thanks Beanie, Lucielle and Tryharder

I'd booked tomorrow off so I could juggle 4 different appointments but may end up working a part day as something is overdue (due to others) and they may need my help to get it finished. I already caught a £0.5M error today - so don't want to take the risk of it being submitted without further input/oversight. Blood test, viewing, counsellor and art class tomorrow possibly interspersed with work. Definitely an interesting mix.

The cleaner came - she's back to being my hero. She's made my lounge liveable again - although still a fair chunk of stuff to hide if I got a valuation or survey appointment through. She's also put on my new bedding and improved my bedroom. She liked the changes I'd made to DS's portrait. Still need to finish that and have another go at DD's. I'm planning to hang the portraits when they're done - rather than gifting them - but I'm hoping they still appreciate the effort involved. I may sort a print for them and family members but timing is dependent on how much longer it takes for them to be complete!

I've asked for an appointment for the central heating service. It's due early January and it now looks like I won't be moved by then so rather than having another thing to quibble with the buyers / any surveyor about I thought I'd get it done. Quoted £65. Happy with that. Should also mean I can resolve a couple of radiators that aren't coming on properly. I've asked him whether there is any way of mending my gas fire without knowing the original make and model. I may order some new TVRs to be on the safe side. Am**** very cheap for that.

I've spent the rest of this evening updating my spreadsheets! Trying to balance future me and current me's wants and desires. After pay day I'm going to buy an annual sub to Aud again for 24 credits. 

 

savingholmes

I've been wide awake for an hour so got up - having some porridge and then going back to bed. Also just put the heating back on in case its the drop in temperature keeping me awake.

I looked at the house listing - and it says 'no chain' which could may make it more doable too. Need to find out where they are up to in their process and what that means in practice but sounds positive. I've written myself a list of things to check - including:

• Joists
• How much it costs to run the heated floor in the bathroom - and how long it takes to warm up
• When the wiring/fuse box was last updated
• Patio doors look old - could do with finding out when double glazing last replaced and check if any glass blown
• Check guttering, sockets and fascia board
• See if I can measure the outdoor space
• No kitchen measurement - so measure it
• Unclear if utility area is excluded from the garage measurement
• See if they got building regs when they changed the use of half of the garage 
• No photo of downstairs loo area - may mean it needs replacing
• It says laminate flooring on the advert but it looks like tile so check
• Bills - gas, water, elec, council tax, insurance
• Local doctor and dentist and any recommendations
• Boiler servicing and installation dates
• Broadband/wifi speeds, phone signal
• Ask about garage flat roof and also ask if they ever investigated extending above the garage
• Ask about hedge in front
• Local crime (I did a search earlier this year and it was no worse than where I am now)

On the advert it does look like they've got an up to date bathroom and kitchen both to my taste so that seems promising.

I may redraw the plan as their's doesn't look right. May get it converted by the people who did my plan for this house as theirs doesn't have measurements on either which is annoying.

Did 2 loads of washing yesterday - just put second lot in the dryer.

uralmaid

I have been following your post with interest and agree that moving home is a minefield.  However, speaking as a former estate agent I have to express concern about your "buyers".  Reading back through it appears that they made their offer around August/September.  If there has been no valuation during this time I would be seriously questioning whether they are a serious buyer.  I can understand that you don't want to "spook" them but remember - your estate agent acts for you, not them. As such they should be chasing them and their solicitors at least once per week by this stage and the agent should be asking questions of their solicitors as to why there has been no progress. Your solicitor can also do this.  Unless this is clarified very soon then all the soul searching this is causing you in terms of the current house your offer was accepted on, and the alternative house you are viewing is irrelevant as you don't have a serious buyer and cannot proceed.
  I also speak from personal experience.  A couple of years ago, we put our property up for sale. A couple came to see it and made an acceptable offer.  They stated they were cash buyers.  The estate agent checked them out and they did prove they had the cash, but then nothing was happening.  We left it for a month then having had no contact we started asking questions.  They stated they weren't having a survey.  Still nothing happened and I was becoming suspicious.  I spoke with the estate agent every couple of days and they kept being told various explanations for this but as I had experience this didn't satisfy me.  I had a long chat with our solicitors who spoke to their solicitors, who told her that although they had had a meeting with them, they hadn't signed a contract with them so they weren't acting for them.  The agent asked the buyers about this and were told they had instructed another solicitor.  2 weeks later we had not had any response, and when our solicitor spoke to the new solicitor they said the same as the first.  We pulled the plug on the sale.  It had ended up wasting us 3 months of selling time - but without us being persistent it could have gone on for longer with still no sale. Sorry for the long post but I felt compelled to write it as this issue is causing you a lot of stress.  I would also add that given we are now at the 7th of December and the fact that most solicitors close for nearly 2 weeks during Xmas and the New Year - they would all massively have to pull their finger out to complete by the end of January so the fact that they made their offer based on this is not valid as they haven't acted upon it to be able to achieve the deadline so please don't let this stress you as the fault is not on your side.  I truly hope you get some answers very soon.x