Advice on non-retail carpark please?

Coupon-mad

You can Google for Port byelaws.

dellaclearing

Coupon-mad said:

You can Google for Port byelaws.

Googled and found this:
https://www.abports.co.uk/media/exkbduns/plymouth-great-western-docks-bye-laws.pdf

Not sure what I'm looking for in here though? Came into effect in 1894 with Additional General Byelaws added in 1977?
I can't see anything in here defining a Bye law area though (to know if the Car Park is within that zone)?

dellaclearing

Hi @Coupon-mad can you advise on my next step please?
Is it time to contact ParkingEye directly to appeal this now?

Thanks in advance!

Not_A_Hope

If you aren’t getting anywhere with the landowner cancellation you could appeal to ParkingEye pointing out that POFA does not apply and as they do not know who the driver was (and you are not going to tell them) they should cancel this PCN and save their POPLA appeal fee where they will lose.

The byelaws do not refer to PCNs in any way. Their existence means it is not relevant land for POFA and that helps you. The additional General Byelaws only refer to ‘parking or leaving any vehicle in such a manner as to cause obstruction’ or ‘leaving a vehicle longer than necessary’. You did neither. Para 5 also states the maximum penalty for any contravention is £25. Not the inflated sum PE is asking for

dellaclearing

Morning everyone, please forgive the lateness of my reply!

A new letter received from ParkingEye late last week...



"...As this time period has now passed, you are out of time to appeal"?

dellaclearing

Not_A_Hope said:

If you aren’t getting anywhere with the landowner cancellation you could appeal to ParkingEye pointing out that POFA does not apply and as they do not know who the driver was (and you are not going to tell them) they should cancel this PCN and save their POPLA appeal fee where they will lose.

The byelaws do not refer to PCNs in any way. Their existence means it is not relevant land for POFA and that helps you. The additional General Byelaws only refer to ‘parking or leaving any vehicle in such a manner as to cause obstruction’ or ‘leaving a vehicle longer than necessary’. You did neither. Para 5 also states the maximum penalty for any contravention is £25. Not the inflated sum PE is asking for

Thank you for your time @Not_A_Hope  please forgive my late reply to you!
I appreciate you for taking the time out of your day to read through the byelaw document I linked, I'm quite lost with things so thank you! I also spotted the same part referencing the £25 fee for causing an obstruction (which I didn't).

How do we know that POFA doesn't apply if we can't determine if the carpark is in/out of the byelaws area? I know you said the byelaws don't relate to PCN's anyway, but in that case why would POFA not apply in this instance please?
I'm just worried that if I appeal on grounds that they can later just throw out, and then laugh all the way to court with me where they can really hurt me!

I received another letter form ParkingEye in the post at the end of last week but have been too ill to do anything about it so only getting around to it now, on the back page it says "...As this time period has now passed, you are out of time to appeal" I'm guessing that as the initial appeal seems to be irrelevant anyway (as from reading this always comes back with a rejection by default), they don't really get to decide this for me anyway?

Thank you in advance for your time and advice!

Not_A_Hope

In your appeal you can reference the Byelaws and that POFA does not apply as the port area is not relevant land under the POFA Act. You will not be naming the driver therefore POPLA should dismiss their PCN.

If it eventually goes to court in your defence you can put them to strict proof and they will have to show the judge the relevant byelaws and the area it covers. If the event took place inside the area covered by byelaws you should win.

Have a look on the forum for other recent non POFA appeals. There are some very cleverly worded ones I have seen recently

Coupon-mad

dellaclearing said:

Morning everyone, please forgive the lateness of my reply!

A new letter received from ParkingEye late last week...



"...As this time period has now passed, you are out of time to appeal"?

Yes you are now out of time to appeal.  

The PCN told you what the deadline was.  

The NEWBIES thread says to try PLAN A first but not to the extent that you miss the appeal deadline.  We were not telling you not to appeal at all. 

Not_A_Hope

Looking looking back through your thread it looks like you have already missed the 28 day deadline to appeal to ParkingEye and won’t now be issued with a POPLA code. 

The NTK looks POFA compliant to me but that doesn’t mean to say that POFA actually applies to that specific area.

I think most people on this forum would suggest you don’t pay. You still have the non-relevant land and poor signage as a key part of your defence

Plymouth_help

Hi, I recently got the same charge from plymouth Dock carpark. If it helps I went and got pictures and they have no correct signage present. No sign references parkingeye. It instead references total parking solutions. It has no mention of number plate recognition. And the charges it states are not the ones referenced in letter you and I received. On top of this there are only 2 very small signs with even smaller writing in the whole car park.

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask but thought I would try before making my own thread. Is it worth mentioning any of the above in the stage one generic reply or wait and bring it all up at the popla second stage?