Advice on non-retail carpark please?

dellaclearing

Hi everyone,

The registered keeper has received a PCN from ParkingEye, the usual £60 instead of £100 deal if I pay up early, that period has already passed though so £100 it is!

The driver pulled into the near-empty car park of a Ferry Port because their young child asked to see the Ferry up close. Driver has parked there before many times to let their child see the large ships before and never had a problem. The entrance to the car park looks like it has changed recently though and this time the registered keeper has been fined.

5 minutes and 40 seconds elapsed between the driver arriving and leaving the car park according to the letter from ParkingEye, Driver might have been able to leave sooner but traffic was quite heavy with so many cars having just disembarked the ferry so driver had to wait a bit for a safe gap to pull out.

Is it worth complaining to the FerryPort to ask if they can cancel it before going through the rounds of appeal with PE? This seems different to the retail parks or shop car parks where they need your custom.  The ParkingEye ticket will be appealed anyway on grounds of it being just over 5 minutes, but mainly wondering if the Driver should ask the FerryPort nicely instead of going in like an angry customer? The driver wasnt their customer, just a careless driver trying to do something nice for their child. Is it better for them to email the Landowner with their hands up, confessing their mistake and asking them to mercifully call the dogs off? If they go in like an angry customer what do they really owe them? Nothing. Also, if they identify themself and confess their sins in an email pleading with them to have the ticket cancelled, could that also be used against them as evidence if they don't like what Driver has to say?

It would be very interesting to hear anyone's thoughts on this please?

Also not entirely sure if the Driver would need to contact Associated British Ports or a well known Yacht manufacturer that might possibly own that car park. The PCN does say Associated British Ports though, so perhaps they've identified the correct Landowner?

This post has been purposely kept vague, if anyone wants more details, and it's safe to post them please just ask.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Not_A_Hope

Whatever you you must not do in any response to the PCN is actually name the driver. Often the areas around docks, railway stations and airports is excluded from POFA so they cannot hold the keeper responsible and do not know who the driver is unless you tell them.

I suggest you advise exactly which car park and ferry port this relates to. The regulars on here may have come across it before and be able to confirm whether it is ‘relevant land’ or not. Also check whether the PCN is POFA compliant or not

Coupon-mad

So glad you haven't already appealed just yet.

This is very very easy to win, assuming this is a non-POFA NTK.  AS LONG AS YOU DON'T APPEAL AS DRIVER. Only as keeper.

Please show us a redacted pic of front and back of the NTK.

Cover the photos of the car, and the PCN ref and VRM as well - as any QR Code and your name & address - but leave all dates visible.

dellaclearing

Firstly, thank you both very much for taking the time to read and reply!

**The original post has now been edited.

Interestingly, the 1st letter from PE does have details relating to POFA 2012 (paragraph 9 (2)b schedule 4) on the back of it, but the reminder letter does not.

Unaware if this is a common theme though?

What it does say is:

"... as a patron only car park, a Parking Charge is applicable if the motorist fails to enter their full, correct vehicle registration into the terminal in reception.

...

By either not purchasing a valid pay and display ticket, by remaining at the car park for longer than permitted, or by not entering your registration details via the terminal, in accordance with the terms and conditions set out in the signage, the Parking Charge is now payable...

A copy of both letters will be uploaded here as soon as there has been an opportunity to obscure any identifying details.

The car park in question is the Associated British Ports car park, Plymouth. The businesses could be Brittany Ferries or maybe Princess Yachts.

If it turns out that the driver still needs to contact the Landowner pleading for mercy, if they use the "irate customer" approach they may just get shown the door and told to enjoy their fine if they don't like what Driver has to say!

The Driver isn't exactly in the position to threaten to never buy another million pound yacht!! 😄

(Or even take a holiday by Ferry!😭) 

Coupon-mad

The car park in question is the Associated British Ports car park, Plymouth.

The KEEPER complains first to the Port Authority and also asks whether this car park is within the Port Byelaws area (and ask for a copy of those byelaws).

dellaclearing

Here is an edited copy of the 1st letter...

(Please let me know if there's anything I've missed that needs to be covered up!!)

Front:


Back:

dellaclearing

... And here's an edited copy of the Reminder letter...

Front:


Back:

dellaclearing

Coupon-mad said:

The car park in question is the Associated British Ports car park, Plymouth.

The KEEPER complains first to the Port Authority and also asks whether this car park us within the Port Byelaws area (and ask for a copy of those byelaws).

Thank you very much for your help Sir!
________________

Dear Sir/Madam,

I'm writing as the registered keeper of vehicle XXXXXXX in reference to a Parking Charge Notice issued by Parking Eye regarding parking on Associated British Ports, Plymouth Car Park.

Please can you let me know if the car park named above is within the Port Byelaws area?
Could you please also send me a copy of those Byelaws?

Yours sincerely,
Mr Blah blah blah.
________________

Something like that? And can I email this to them or better to print and send by post.
I'd better to respond to ParkingEye at the same time to tell them I'm appealing their 5 minute rip-off.

Coupon-mad

I'm not a Sir, I'm a lady! 

And no, you are complaining as well as asking for the byelaws.  Asking them to step in and cancel it but without saying who the driver was.  Ask what the grace period is and say it is ridiculous to see a PCN issued for just 5 minutes.  Complain by email.

dellaclearing

Coupon-mad said:

you are complaining as well as asking for the byelaws.  Asking them to step in and cancel it but without saying who the driver was.  Ask what the grace period is and say it is ridiculous to see a PCN issued for just 5 minutes.  Complain by email.

Thank you once again for your time and advice!!
How's this for a draft email please:


Dear Sir/Madam,

I'm writing as the keeper of vehicle XXXXXXX to complain in reference to a Parking Charge Notice issued by ParkingEye for parking on Associated British Ports, Plymouth Car Park.

Date of offence: XXXXXX
PCN Reference number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

The document shows dark camera stills of vehicle XXXXXXX arriving at the Associated British Ports, Plymouth Car Park and then leaving 5 minutes later. For this a fine of £100 has been sent to the registered keeper.

The British Parking Association's Code of Practise, Clause 13.1 states:
The driver must have the chance to consider the Terms and Conditions before entering into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, the driver decides not to park but chooses to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable consideration period to leave, before the driver can be bound by your parking contract. The amount of time in these instances will vary dependant on site size and type but it must be a minimum of 5 minutes.

Despite the fact that, even according to the BPA's own terms, no offence has ocurred, it is utterly ridiculous to see a fine issued for 5 minutes. The figure of £100 is also outrageously disproportionate to the cost to the Landowner and I'm writing to ask that you please step in immediately and have this ticket cancelled as it is within your power to do so.
I would also like to know if the car park named above is within the Port Byelaws area? I also request that you please send me a copy of those Byelaws.

Yours sincerely,
Mr Blah blah blah.



How's that, any good?

Coupon-mad said:

I'm not a Sir, I'm a lady! 

Oops! Very sorry Ma'am! Please, please, please accept my apologies!!

Coupon-mad

The figure of £100 is also outrageously disproportionate to the cost to the Landowner and

Remove the above sentence, and it's not a fine.  Change that word.

Bring the request for the byelaws and the supposed 'grace period' their agent is meant to allow to their attention by making it a separate paragraph and giving them 14 days to supply this information.