Gifts - do I have to give them back legally

breaking_free

So she's ignoring your requests to stop even though she can see this is causing you stress? Some friend. Block her. You don't need people like that in your life. 

Stateofart

Let him take you to court.  He probably won't.

tightauldgit

Continued behaviour like this is building up towards harassment. I'd write to him (maybe via the friend) and make it clear that the items were gifts and as such belong to you. Tell him if he disputes this he can issue a court action against you but you will not engage in any further communication on the matter and will consider any further messages as harassment and inform the police. 

X2567843

tightauldgit said:

Continued behaviour like this is building up towards harassment. I'd write to him (maybe via the friend) and make it clear that the items were gifts and as such belong to you. Tell him if he disputes this he can issue a court action against you but you will not engage in any further communication on the matter and will consider any further messages as harassment and inform the police. 

Thank you.  I’ve told my friend not to pass on a further messages to me from him. 

How do you think a court deals with gifts?  He’s saying he has receipts for them all so that proves his ownership of the items.  How does a court make their decision on what is gifts and what he owns?  It’s all so very petty.  I’m expecting a letter from the court soon.  

Savvy_Sue

X2567843 said:

tightauldgit said:

Continued behaviour like this is building up towards harassment. I'd write to him (maybe via the friend) and make it clear that the items were gifts and as such belong to you. Tell him if he disputes this he can issue a court action against you but you will not engage in any further communication on the matter and will consider any further messages as harassment and inform the police. 

Thank you.  I’ve told my friend not to pass on a further messages to me from him. 

How do you think a court deals with gifts?  He’s saying he has receipts for them all so that proves his ownership of the items.  How does a court make their decision on what is gifts and what he owns?  It’s all so very petty.  I’m expecting a letter from the court soon.  

Honestly, I really wouldn't lose sleep over this. IF you get a letter from the court, come back and we'll advise further. A court is unlikely to wish to become involved, and is just as likely to explain to him the meaning of 'gift' as it is to order you to return things which he did not intend as gifts but pretended as such at the time. 

If you really can't get your mind off this, start listing items and how you remember the conversation going. Also note any that were birthday / Christmas / Valentine's gifts. 

Although you could equally start looking out for replacements on local listing sites and wish him joy of his 'gifts' ... 

X2567843

Savvy_Sue said:

X2567843 said:

tightauldgit said:

Continued behaviour like this is building up towards harassment. I'd write to him (maybe via the friend) and make it clear that the items were gifts and as such belong to you. Tell him if he disputes this he can issue a court action against you but you will not engage in any further communication on the matter and will consider any further messages as harassment and inform the police. 

Thank you.  I’ve told my friend not to pass on a further messages to me from him. 

How do you think a court deals with gifts?  He’s saying he has receipts for them all so that proves his ownership of the items.  How does a court make their decision on what is gifts and what he owns?  It’s all so very petty.  I’m expecting a letter from the court soon.  

Honestly, I really wouldn't lose sleep over this. IF you get a letter from the court, come back and we'll advise further. A court is unlikely to wish to become involved, and is just as likely to explain to him the meaning of 'gift' as it is to order you to return things which he did not intend as gifts but pretended as such at the time. 

If you really can't get your mind off this, start listing items and how you remember the conversation going. Also note any that were birthday / Christmas / Valentine's gifts. 

Although you could equally start looking out for replacements on local listing sites and wish him joy of his 'gifts' ... 

thank you.  They’ve been to collect items tonight with a police officer present (I booked a breech of peace appointment).  The removal men refused to take apart the garden furniture as the way it had been put together (screws forced in too tight), it would mean breaking the furniture causing damage.  So the ex has said they’ll put a claim through the court to make me pay them for the furniture, just because the removal men couldn’t take it apart and remove it from the property! The police officer said I wouldn’t worry you’ve made the furniture available for collection so you’ve done nothing wrong.  I don’t want it.  I wanted rid of it but to fit through the house it has to be taken apart and no company will risk breaking it for fear of getting a bill to replace it.  

How does one prove that you have something of theirs as well?  He’s saying I have things in my home that are his but I don’t have them.  It all seems so petty for a court to even consider the case.  

Savvy_Sue

And it is indeed petty. Just keep breathing sighs of relief, you are well shot of him.

Were the things he claims you still have ever at your house?

tightauldgit

X2567843 said:

tightauldgit said:

Continued behaviour like this is building up towards harassment. I'd write to him (maybe via the friend) and make it clear that the items were gifts and as such belong to you. Tell him if he disputes this he can issue a court action against you but you will not engage in any further communication on the matter and will consider any further messages as harassment and inform the police. 

Thank you.  I’ve told my friend not to pass on a further messages to me from him. 

How do you think a court deals with gifts?  He’s saying he has receipts for them all so that proves his ownership of the items.  How does a court make their decision on what is gifts and what he owns?  It’s all so very petty.  I’m expecting a letter from the court soon.  

A court deals with gifts by establishing on the balance of probabilities if they were actually gifts - the fact that he can prove he bought them is irrelevant since that's not in dispute. The question is whether or not they are gifts. Quite often this is just he said/she said and I doubt the courts want to waste their time with it. 

It would come down to what the judge decides on the day based on whether there is anything written down, the nature of the items, what each side says in relation to the items. There's no real presumption either way in law.

His receipts are pointless though. 

Jude57

X2567843 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

X2567843 said:

tightauldgit said:

Continued behaviour like this is building up towards harassment. I'd write to him (maybe via the friend) and make it clear that the items were gifts and as such belong to you. Tell him if he disputes this he can issue a court action against you but you will not engage in any further communication on the matter and will consider any further messages as harassment and inform the police. 

Thank you.  I’ve told my friend not to pass on a further messages to me from him. 

How do you think a court deals with gifts?  He’s saying he has receipts for them all so that proves his ownership of the items.  How does a court make their decision on what is gifts and what he owns?  It’s all so very petty.  I’m expecting a letter from the court soon.  

Honestly, I really wouldn't lose sleep over this. IF you get a letter from the court, come back and we'll advise further. A court is unlikely to wish to become involved, and is just as likely to explain to him the meaning of 'gift' as it is to order you to return things which he did not intend as gifts but pretended as such at the time. 

If you really can't get your mind off this, start listing items and how you remember the conversation going. Also note any that were birthday / Christmas / Valentine's gifts. 

Although you could equally start looking out for replacements on local listing sites and wish him joy of his 'gifts' ... 

thank you.  They’ve been to collect items tonight with a police officer present (I booked a breech of peace appointment).  The removal men refused to take apart the garden furniture as the way it had been put together (screws forced in too tight), it would mean breaking the furniture causing damage.  So the ex has said they’ll put a claim through the court to make me pay them for the furniture, just because the removal men couldn’t take it apart and remove it from the property! The police officer said I wouldn’t worry you’ve made the furniture available for collection so you’ve done nothing wrong.  I don’t want it.  I wanted rid of it but to fit through the house it has to be taken apart and no company will risk breaking it for fear of getting a bill to replace it.  

How does one prove that you have something of theirs as well?  He’s saying I have things in my home that are his but I don’t have them.  It all seems so petty for a court to even consider the case.  

If it ever came to a Court hearing, which I very much doubt it will, you have the right to call witnesses. In this case, the Police Officer who attended can testify that you made the garden furniture available for collection but the removal firm refused to deconstruct it. You could also call the removal men to confirm that and to explain why they wouldn't deconstruct it. These are all independent witnesses and, especially the Police Officer, regarded as impartial. The Police Officer will have noted all this in his notebook immediately afterwards and that is admissible as evidence because it was noted at the time and it's commonly accepted that Officers will refer to their notes to refresh their memory of events.

But, as others have said, it's highly unlikely to ever see the inside of a Court. Some people, like your ex, like to bluster and threaten, especially when they're losing control of a situation or person. Most law-abiding people are worried by the threat of being taken to Court but in reality, Judges in Small Claims cases aren't Judge Judy. They are basically administrators, seeking to apply what is equitable to both sides. If what you've said is true then your ex may well have receipts for items but so would anyone who buys a gift for someone. You have proof (Police Officer attended) that you were happy to give back anything your ex wanted. If you also have texts, e-mail, cards etc showing any items were gifts, that all adds up on your side. Judges see this sort of case all the time where a disgruntled ex suddenly decides gifts weren't gifts after all. Please remember this one thing: unlike a criminal case where proof beyond a reasonable doubt is required, in civil cases, it's decided on the balance of probabilities - is it more likely than not that one side is correct. In all civil cases, it's up to the Plaintiff (your ex) to PROVE that the items were not gifts and that you (Respondent) had no reason to believe they were. Again, if what you say is true, this would be hard to prove. What is easy to prove is that you have tried to be reasonable throughout and the Judge will give weight to that.

It's easy for us to say you shouldn't worry but I know how hard it is not to. Please just try not to let it get to you, block all contact and if by any chance you receive actual Court papers, come back and we'll be happy to help further. In the meantime, thank your lucky stars you're rid of your ex.