Advice please re UKPC Final Reminder. Newbies thread has been read.

MaisieSpur

On 9/11/23 I received a Final Reminder (FR) from UKPC about my car having been parked on 7/10/23. I did not get the previous NTK that they refer to. The charge is for not parking within the markings of a bay. There is one photo of the car on the FR, plus a web address which shows others of the car and one of a sign. The ones of the car show a piece of paper on the dashboard which is the ticket (paid for by credit card, the correct amount for the period of stay). The car was parked against a fence in a position which did not obstruct anyone/anything. There was no sign on the ground nor on the fence behind which prohibited parking there. There were several attendants on duty and none of them did anything to prevent several cars parking along the fence. I assume that all were given tickets. The date stamp on the photo shows it was taken a few minutes after the kick off of the football game that the car had been parked there for the passengers to watch. My guess is that each week that there is a game they ticket anyone who parks in this spot. Entrapment, if so? The FR does not advise who the owner of the land is so I cannot follow Step 1 of your advice and complain to them. I have drafted a letter to UKPC which I will email to them. The draft is:

You have issued me with a Final Reminder dated 28/10/2023. It refers to having written previously but does not quote the date. I did not receive it. The Final Reminder was delivered on 9th November 2023. I believe it was unfairly issued.

If you contend that a Notice to Keeper was issued at the appropriate time, I invite you to forward to me a full copy with proof of posting. Without that, it can only reinforce my assertion that none was issued and I would invite a court to draw the same inference.

I will anyway not be paying your Final Demand for payment for the following reasons:

There was insufficient signage

The car park in question has no clear signage to explain the parking restriction that you allege that I contravened. This means that no contract can be formed with the landowner and the ticket was issued illegally. Your letter includes a photo of the vehicle parked in the XXXXXX car park on 7/11/2023. It shows that the car is parked against a fence and does not provide any form of obstruction or prevent anyone having access to anything. And this is in a car park that is open to the public. The letter refers to additional images being available on a website. Those photos include one which shows a white piece of paper on the dashboard – being a ticket for the correct time to remain in the car park. Payment for that ticket can be confirmed from Credit Card records. The website photos include one of a sign. However the sign cannot be read even when the image is enlarged so there is no point including the photo. The car park was very busy that day and there were several attendants on duty – presumably employees of yours or of a company contracted by you. None of them took any steps to advise drivers (the photo shows others parked in the same area) that parking is not permitted in that location. There is no signage/cones/barrier to provide any indication of a restriction nor any physical barrier to show that parking must not occur there. It seems to me that this is a form of “entrapment” where it is intended that vehicles will park in the location so that a PCN can be issued. The timing of the photo (a few minutes after the football match locally kicked-off) adds to that view. I wonder if PCNs are issued at a similar time after the kick-off of every XXXXX home fixture for parking in that location? As the car park is advertised by XXXXX FC for matchday parking I imagine they would not want fans charged unreasonably.     

Ownership of premises.

Please tell me who owns the car park as I wish to send them a copy of this letter and complain about your letter..

Contractual Authority (as required by BPA Ltd AOS CoP B.7)

Please provide me with a copy of the contract between your company and the landowner/landholder that provides the necessary contractual written authority for the issue and enforcement of your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper.

I have read so many different threads on this site and as a newbie it is a lot to take in. Please accept my apologies if I have missed things. My draft letter is obviously not your template but I have included details that seem to me relevant. Any advise you can offer will be very gratefully received.

KeithP

Hello @MaisieSpur. Welcome.

One good reason for not trying to write your own appeal is that it is so easy to fall into the trap of giving away the driver's identity.
Reading your proposed appeal it appears that you are doing exactly that in this sentence...

The car park in question has no clear signage to explain the parking restriction that you allege that I contravened.

Perhaps the last few words there should be "that you allege the driver contravened".

Do you understand why it might not be a good idea to identify the driver?

Coupon-mad

This is why the Template appeal exists.

MaisieSpur

Thanks very much to both of you for the input. I will amend the section highlighted by Keith P. I don't actually know why the keeper/driver distinction is so important just that it is stressed almost everywhere I have read on this site to not confirm driver. I will read again to see why it is. One query, I have seen other cases on here where specific detail has been included in addition to the template words. Do you suggest not to add anything to the template despite the reasons in this case? Is the idea to save the reasons for a potential POPLA later? Thanks again.

Coupon-mad

Don't add anything. 

MaisieSpur

I have used the template. The UKPC site told me that (7 days after receiving the Final Reminder) I was too late to appeal and my case had been transferred to debt collection. I had to use their complaints option instead. 
Today a debt collector (ZZPS) letter dated 13/11 (16 days after the date of the FR) arrived. Should I respond to them? I am tempted to email them to advise that I have complained, and why, and not to make the threatened referral to GCTT Enforcement Agents.

KeithP

MaisieSpur said:

Today a debt collector (ZZPS) letter dated 13/11 (16 days after the date of the FR) arrived. Should I respond to them? I am tempted to email them to advise that I have complained, and why, and not to make the threatened referral to GCTT Enforcement Agents.

The fourth post of the NEWBIES thread explains exactly how to deal with debt collectors' letters but to summarise that post - ignore them.

MaisieSpur

Thanks very much Keith. I have read the post now - and will watch the video today.

patient_dream

MaisieSpur said:

I have used the template. The UKPC site told me that (7 days after receiving the Final Reminder) I was too late to appeal and my case had been transferred to debt collection. I had to use their complaints option instead. 
Today a debt collector (ZZPS) letter dated 13/11 (16 days after the date of the FR) arrived. Should I respond to them? I am tempted to email them to advise that I have complained, and why, and not to make the threatened referral to GCTT Enforcement Agents.

As you know, ZZPS is the famous OSNER scam
GCTT is only the OSNER "spitting image"

POINTLESS POWERLESS TIMEWASTERS

Why would you talk to known MONEY SCAMMERS ??

MaisieSpur

Well Patient Dream, I didn't know - but now I do. And I won't be replying to them.

Fruitcake

Where did the alleged event occur? It may have cropped up here before. This will help you and us to perhaps identify the landowner. 

Please show us the photos provided by UKPC. Redact your number plate beforehand.

UKPC signs are always inadequate and incapable of forming a contract with a motorists because the wording is in tiny font and cannot be read even from a short distance such as a car length.