Seller took out a personal loan for home improvements, can I be held liable?

RHemmings

GDB2222 said:

Don’t we all feel sorry for the estate agent? They want their commission in time for Christmas. It must be frustrating!

Oh, I've just had one party in my purchase (not me or my solicitors) suddenly ask if the sale can be sped up and completed before Christmas... I didn't think about it that way. Not saying it is for sure, but I have noticed what you have said. 

GDB2222

NameUnavailable said:

A personal loan is a contract between the financier and the person taking the loan. If they buy 'home improvements' with it and then later default, the home improvements have been paid for so nobody is going to turn up to rip stuff out or scrape wallpaper off walls. The finance co will however go after the person who owes them the money, getting a repayment plan or attachment of earnings or ultimately sending bailffs around (to THEIR home, not some place they used to live at).

HP is different, yes, but I'm pretty sure you can only get HP on items that are easily recoverable and have resale value, such as a car. Nobody is going to rip out home fixtures and sell them to someone else.

Forgive me pointing out that this is completely obvious, so there needs to be some explanation as to why the solicitor has advised as they have. 

Of course, the solicitor could be barking mad, but I would not just assume that.

user1977

GDB2222 said:

NameUnavailable said:

A personal loan is a contract between the financier and the person taking the loan. If they buy 'home improvements' with it and then later default, the home improvements have been paid for so nobody is going to turn up to rip stuff out or scrape wallpaper off walls. The finance co will however go after the person who owes them the money, getting a repayment plan or attachment of earnings or ultimately sending bailffs around (to THEIR home, not some place they used to live at).

HP is different, yes, but I'm pretty sure you can only get HP on items that are easily recoverable and have resale value, such as a car. Nobody is going to rip out home fixtures and sell them to someone else.

Of course, the solicitor could be barking mad, but I would not just assume that.

It's still the easiest option for me

HP is pretty much non-existent for things which might be included in a house sale, retention of title clauses don't work in consumer contracts (to the extent anything might simply not be paid for yet), and once anything becomes a fixture then it's only going to be secured by fixed charges (i.e. normal mortgages), which are covered by separate enquiries (and can be seen on the register anyway).

I suppose the other anomaly for "things not really owned by the vendor" might be items which are subject to a lease (such as solar panels) - but again that's a separate question, and will be noted on the Land Registry.

baccalad

user1977 said:

GDB2222 said:

NameUnavailable said:

A personal loan is a contract between the financier and the person taking the loan. If they buy 'home improvements' with it and then later default, the home improvements have been paid for so nobody is going to turn up to rip stuff out or scrape wallpaper off walls. The finance co will however go after the person who owes them the money, getting a repayment plan or attachment of earnings or ultimately sending bailffs around (to THEIR home, not some place they used to live at).

HP is different, yes, but I'm pretty sure you can only get HP on items that are easily recoverable and have resale value, such as a car. Nobody is going to rip out home fixtures and sell them to someone else.

Of course, the solicitor could be barking mad, but I would not just assume that.

It's still the easiest option for me

HP is pretty much non-existent for things which might be included in a house sale, retention of title clauses don't work in consumer contracts (to the extent anything might simply not be paid for yet), and once anything becomes a fixture then it's only going to be secured by fixed charges (i.e. normal mortgages), which are covered by separate enquiries (and can be seen on the register anyway).

I suppose the other anomaly for "things not really owned by the vendor" might be items which are subject to a lease (such as solar panels) - but again that's a separate question, and will be noted on the Land Registry.

Is it worth chasing my solicitor for some specific legal reasoning with citations as to why they think it could become an issue? Rather than what I've been told so far which essentially feels like "they can just because they can".

I haven't really challenged my solicitor on it so far, deciding to just wait and see what the bank said. I initially didn't want to come across as confrontational, when I'm supposed to be trusting them to be acting in my best interests.

What my lender has said, along with what I've read on here and elsewhere, has made me feel a lot more comfortable with proceeding, in any case.

user1977

baccalad said:

user1977 said:

GDB2222 said:

NameUnavailable said:

A personal loan is a contract between the financier and the person taking the loan. If they buy 'home improvements' with it and then later default, the home improvements have been paid for so nobody is going to turn up to rip stuff out or scrape wallpaper off walls. The finance co will however go after the person who owes them the money, getting a repayment plan or attachment of earnings or ultimately sending bailffs around (to THEIR home, not some place they used to live at).

HP is different, yes, but I'm pretty sure you can only get HP on items that are easily recoverable and have resale value, such as a car. Nobody is going to rip out home fixtures and sell them to someone else.

Of course, the solicitor could be barking mad, but I would not just assume that.

It's still the easiest option for me

HP is pretty much non-existent for things which might be included in a house sale, retention of title clauses don't work in consumer contracts (to the extent anything might simply not be paid for yet), and once anything becomes a fixture then it's only going to be secured by fixed charges (i.e. normal mortgages), which are covered by separate enquiries (and can be seen on the register anyway).

I suppose the other anomaly for "things not really owned by the vendor" might be items which are subject to a lease (such as solar panels) - but again that's a separate question, and will be noted on the Land Registry.

Is it worth chasing my solicitor for some specific legal reasoning with citations as to why they think it could become an issue? Rather than what I've been told so far which essentially feels like "they can just because they can".

I haven't really challenged my solicitor on it so far, deciding to just wait and see what the bank said. I initially didn't want to come across as confrontational, when I'm supposed to be trusting them to be acting in my best interests.

What my lender has said, along with what I've read on here and elsewhere, has made me feel a lot more comfortable with proceeding, in any case.

It might be interesting to find out what their response is, and to gently probe why they've been wasting everybody's time about it. Or you could take the view that you have more important things to be getting on with, and just take it as a warning that they're not the most competent at their job...

GDB2222

baccalad said:

user1977 said:

GDB2222 said:

NameUnavailable said:

A personal loan is a contract between the financier and the person taking the loan. If they buy 'home improvements' with it and then later default, the home improvements have been paid for so nobody is going to turn up to rip stuff out or scrape wallpaper off walls. The finance co will however go after the person who owes them the money, getting a repayment plan or attachment of earnings or ultimately sending bailffs around (to THEIR home, not some place they used to live at).

HP is different, yes, but I'm pretty sure you can only get HP on items that are easily recoverable and have resale value, such as a car. Nobody is going to rip out home fixtures and sell them to someone else.

Of course, the solicitor could be barking mad, but I would not just assume that.

It's still the easiest option for me

HP is pretty much non-existent for things which might be included in a house sale, retention of title clauses don't work in consumer contracts (to the extent anything might simply not be paid for yet), and once anything becomes a fixture then it's only going to be secured by fixed charges (i.e. normal mortgages), which are covered by separate enquiries (and can be seen on the register anyway).

I suppose the other anomaly for "things not really owned by the vendor" might be items which are subject to a lease (such as solar panels) - but again that's a separate question, and will be noted on the Land Registry.

Is it worth chasing my solicitor for some specific legal reasoning with citations as to why they think it could become an issue? Rather than what I've been told so far which essentially feels like "they can just because they can".

I haven't really challenged my solicitor on it so far, deciding to just wait and see what the bank said. I initially didn't want to come across as confrontational, when I'm supposed to be trusting them to be acting in my best interests.

What my lender has said, along with what I've read on here and elsewhere, has made me feel a lot more comfortable with proceeding, in any case.

I don’t think you are challenging your solicitor just by asking for a more detailed explanation. 

Really, you have a choice between doing that or just ploughing ahead and hoping for the best. 

But do read the small grey print under all my posts The same wording ought to appear under all the posts on this forum, because in reality you can’t sue anyone on this forum, no matter how disastrous the advice we give turns out to be in the end! 

NameUnavailable

If a solicitor/conveyancer can't understand the simple basics of unsecured personal loans then I would seriously worry what else about a property purchase they don't understand - maybe something far more serious has been missed!

Unless there's some misunderstanding or other information not provided.

saajan_12

baccalad said:

user1977 said:

GDB2222 said:

NameUnavailable said:

A personal loan is a contract between the financier and the person taking the loan. If they buy 'home improvements' with it and then later default, the home improvements have been paid for so nobody is going to turn up to rip stuff out or scrape wallpaper off walls. The finance co will however go after the person who owes them the money, getting a repayment plan or attachment of earnings or ultimately sending bailffs around (to THEIR home, not some place they used to live at).

HP is different, yes, but I'm pretty sure you can only get HP on items that are easily recoverable and have resale value, such as a car. Nobody is going to rip out home fixtures and sell them to someone else.

Of course, the solicitor could be barking mad, but I would not just assume that.

It's still the easiest option for me

HP is pretty much non-existent for things which might be included in a house sale, retention of title clauses don't work in consumer contracts (to the extent anything might simply not be paid for yet), and once anything becomes a fixture then it's only going to be secured by fixed charges (i.e. normal mortgages), which are covered by separate enquiries (and can be seen on the register anyway).

I suppose the other anomaly for "things not really owned by the vendor" might be items which are subject to a lease (such as solar panels) - but again that's a separate question, and will be noted on the Land Registry.

Is it worth chasing my solicitor for some specific legal reasoning with citations as to why they think it could become an issue? Rather than what I've been told so far which essentially feels like "they can just because they can".

I haven't really challenged my solicitor on it so far, deciding to just wait and see what the bank said. I initially didn't want to come across as confrontational, when I'm supposed to be trusting them to be acting in my best interests.

What my lender has said, along with what I've read on here and elsewhere, has made me feel a lot more comfortable with proceeding, in any case.

Yes, I would. 

The lender might be fine with it because the loan has nothing to do with the property, or they might be fine with it because they have a low enough LTV so even if some fittings were removed or if the loan amount was deducted from the sale proceeds, they will still have enough room to recover the outstanding mortgage. 

However you would want to know the whole property is safe, including fixtures / fittings, not just the mortgage amount. So the solicitor needs to explain exactly how the charge is registered, and how it can come back on your property. I do not think there's a chance of a ccj on you. 

EssexHebridean

GDB2222 said:

NameUnavailable said:

A personal loan is a contract between the financier and the person taking the loan. If they buy 'home improvements' with it and then later default, the home improvements have been paid for so nobody is going to turn up to rip stuff out or scrape wallpaper off walls. The finance co will however go after the person who owes them the money, getting a repayment plan or attachment of earnings or ultimately sending bailffs around (to THEIR home, not some place they used to live at).

HP is different, yes, but I'm pretty sure you can only get HP on items that are easily recoverable and have resale value, such as a car. Nobody is going to rip out home fixtures and sell them to someone else.

Forgive me pointing out that this is completely obvious, so there needs to be some explanation as to why the solicitor has advised as they have. 

Of course, the solicitor could be barking mad, but I would not just assume that.

I still suspect it comes from a misunderstanding in the way the seller has answered the enquiry. if the seller doesn't understand the difference between a personal loan and an HP type agreement - and plenty of folk don't, really, then they may simply have answered the enquiry about any outstanding finance wrongly, and if that has been (either unwittingly, or simply because the solicitor has been unable to get clarification on it) passed on by their solicitor to yours, then that would explain it, as our solicitor has a duty to inform you of what is being said, and to take that seriously if it could cause you an issue. It's not for them to second guess what the seller "might" mean.

baccalad

I’ve only just managed to be able to get in contact with my solicitor today. I explained how I understand what they’re saying could happen, but I asked if they could explain to me the legal aspect of why it could happen, as I still don’t understand how I can become liable for their loan if I buy the house. They just reiterated the same point about items being financed and not owned outright, and how I wouldn’t own them and they could be seized if the seller stopped paying for them.