Compulsary recall caused issue that significantly devalued car - advice please!

mygfmademejoin

I have a car that was recalled by BMW UK, if the recall was not done the vehicle posed a potential  fire risk.

When the vehicle went into the dealership, it had approx 110k miles on the odometer.

Vehicle recall and brake fluid service carried out. All preservice/recall questions answered honestly. (i.e. does the vehicle have any modifications/changes) We were not aware of any and answered as such.

When the vehicle was collected, the mileage had been reset from 110k to zero after recall reprogramming. We were not made aware of this at the time until we collected it and noticed it ourselves.

One week later vehicle went back into the dealer.

Following investigation dealer claims mileage manipulation causing speedo unit faults – no conclusive evidence provided despite multiple requests. Claim that we did not answer questions pre-service/recall accurately, yet seperately state that we would not have known about any manipulation as it would have been prior to our ownership. They have used very inconsistent language regarding the fault.

Dealer unable to tell us what the actual mileage of the vehicle is despite being confident it has been adjusted prior to our ownership.

Initially cost of new speedo unit was £1300, then dropped to £900 then cost to us stated as £600 for a vehicle that went into the dealership in working order. We don't believe we should pay anything.

Vehicle with dealer for approx. 8 weeks during negotiations over repairs.

Loan car was provided during this time – unreasonable deadlines set for return of car then threat to report us having stolen the vehicle  - even though timescales for return were unreasonable and the reasons why we could not meet them had been stated.

When our vehicle was collected – panels/bodywork in boot had been left out – mileage had been reset again from 200 miles to zero – battery had been allowed to drop very low – potentially harming it. Other concerning issues relating to vehicle safety.

Vehicle has not been cared for during time with dealer and has been devalued as a result of the work carried out,(i.e. loss of mileage affects value),  this work that was a compulsory recall requested by BMW.

The dealer has valued the car at approx £5300 in its current condition - the cheapest comparable private sale is £8500, and the cheapest dealer sale is approx £10k.

Thank you for reading this far.

Looking for advice as to how to proceed!

I did pay for the brake fluid service that was done at the same time as the recall. This was over £100 and paid for on my CC. Would it be possible to do a section 75 against the dealer?

As things stand the car would be very difficult to sell due to the mileage being incorrect and the fault lights that are now on and off all the time and will be worth a lot less than when it went into the dealer. I don't feel i should have to foot the cost of the repairs that are only necessary because the vehicle went in for a compulsory recall.

facade

Seems to me that your complaint is actually with whoever "clocked" the mileage back- but you don't know who that is.

(Lease & PCP cars are cheaper if the agreed mileage is kept low, so they can be targets for mileage manipulation.)

You have a car that is low value because it has an unknown mileage, and as such you cannot advertise it as a genuine 110K anyway, or even say "to the best of my knowledge it is 110K" as you are now aware that it isn't.

The £5300 is what a dealer will buy it for, this is obviously well below what they would sell it for as they have to make a profit, and potentially spend out on fixing any current faults as well as offer a guarantee (and then pick up any new faults that develop). Also you are comparing prices of cars with known mileage against yours with an unknown, possibly another 50-100K miles- check the price of a comparable car with 200K miles.

BMW will have a disclaimer (that you agreed to) that any problems caused by previous customer modifications are not their problem, as this kind of thing is probably fairly common.

I can't see that it is BMW's fault I'm afraid.

I'd search out someone who can do BMW coding and see if they can set it back to 110K and get the lights to stay out.

A BMW forum may be able to help.

Wonka_2

In reality the 'value' is immaterial until you come to sell it but to try and add some glimmers of hope

Was it bought from BMW ? If not then what history did it have before then and is there anything in that or the previous owners that gives any concern re it's history ?

Assuming they gave you a warning and you signed it, whether you read it or not, then there's probably not a lot they're going to do to help and you're into the realms of the programming underground who can help.

If you're going to keep it then the next milestone is to get it fixed before the next MOT is due

mygfmademejoin

Hi, Thank you for the responses.

As things stand I want to sell the vehicle as I have lost faith in it so I need it to be in a saleable condition.

To add a little detail, it was bought 2.5 yrs ago from a reputable independent dealer that is still trading today. I did pay the deposit on my CC, was provided with a HPI certificate by the dealer. I am wondering whether I have some scope for pursuing a section 75 against the independent dealer I used. 

I signed nothing, the only question I was asked was whether or not the vehicle was modified to my knowledge, which to my knowledge it wasn't. (dealer has admitted i wouldnt have known in emails.)

The issue we have, which I didn't make clear above, is that in attempting to prove that the vehicle has been clocked, the dealer has produced information that would have been readily available to them when the vehicle went in for the recall and should have been flagged. Our view is that if this info is freely available, due diligence would suggest that this would be noted as a possible modification and we should have been notified.

The evidence they have shown us to support mileage manipulation basically shows various key/telemetry readings that are (and this is an approximation) 66k, 73k, 76k, 1865mile, 118miles, 79k - so it doesnt necessarily prove the vehicle has been clocked, just that an error may have occurred or the vehicle may been repaired.

I appreciate that a trade in valuation will never reflect a retail valuation for obvious reasons.

caprikid1

I really think this is a suck it up case, there is no realistic likelyhood IMHO of you proving any substantial losses and blame for any of the above. Where you can prove the blame you might not prove the loss and vice versa.

These sorts of cases can be hugely expensive to fight and a success is not guaranteed.

I Spanish dealer and a clocked car over 3 years ago , good luck with either of those.

facade

Escalate it to BMW UK yourself and see if you can get more "good will".

Likely the dealer can find out that there is mileage manipulation prior to the work, and possibly should have told you of the risk of bricking the dash, but it is a safety recall to stop the car bursting into flames and causing injury or damage to property (e.g. Luton airport).  

Probably the dealer is instructed by BMW to proceed with the work come what may once they have the car, you might even find that your insurer would have cancelled your cover if they had told you and you refused the modification.

You can talk to the supplying dealer and see if they will chip in and help a bit, though you will probably find in your purchase paperwork that the mileage is not guaranteed accurate*, also the HPI guarantee doesn't cover mileage (because mileage manipulation is so common) even if it applied to you- it doesn't because you didn't arrange the HPI.

*no dealer is ever going to guarantee that mileage is accurate, unless they owned the car themself from new and have been the only driver.

NINJA59

BMW UK won't get involved in general and in general as much use as a chocolate fire guard. That being said if you do contact them I would push to get a BMW UK Technical Support Engineer/Manager to your car to assist the dealer and also push the dealer to get one out.

That being said sadly in my experience, BMW dealers are notorious for this sort of behaviour. i.e. lack of owning a f*ck up.

Your mileage beyond the clocks I suspect INPA (their diagnostic tool that BMW use) will be able to fidn mileage from other modules. Whilst it is easy to change the clock one these days, it is very difficult, if near impossible to remove the mileage displayed in other modules stored elsewhere. The other modules are likely to be in KM though and possibly even show engine running time.

You may need to persuade BMW to look into those modules though.  I would however push them to get someone from BMW UK to have the car looked at in person.

I feel your pain though, having been through similar with BMW it took me 2 BMW dealers, 8 visits across both, some pushing a little of the (very good 2nd dealer) service manager (who knew me unfortunately by first name terms) and one thankfully invested service master tech at the 2nd dealer alongside a visit from BMW UK's region technical manager to get my timing chain sorted. 

Despite all of this, the car ran well until it left my hands, but it left a very sour experience of BMW in general, for which my response on looking for a new vehicle was to rule them straight out ironically now owning a UK manufactured car (not JLR or Nissan before anyone thinks that!). Yes I have had the odd silly issue, but none of the not my problem or lack of owning a f*ck up, which is what made me most tired in regards BMW.

Jenni_D

Re. Section 75 and the previous independent dealer ... to clarify, a S75 claim is against the credit provider, not the seller. (S75 means that if you have a viable claim against a seller then you have an equal claim against the credit provider).

mygfmademejoin

Hi Jenni, yes, my intention would be to claim against the credit provider if the original dealer were to refuse my claim, (which is highly likely.)

I am just not sure how viable this would be.

mygfmademejoin

Thanks Ninja59, what you say about the mileage showing in other modules is what the BMW dealer has said is the reason that they know it has been clocked, however they will not produce this evidence.

A good friend who is also a very competent and professional mechanic has said the same as you.

We are just going round in circles with the dealer, repeatedly asking them for proof of the actual mileage the car has done as this would support a potential section 75 claim against the CC we used to pay the deposit, which they will not produce for us. 

Thanks for your information!

eskbanker

https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history should show a complete history of mileages recorded at each MOT....