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PCN for not parking fully within a bay while another car didn't get one for not parking in a bay

balsingh
balsingh Posts: 1,490
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edited 7 November 2023 at 3:12AM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
Got a PCN about a week ago at the Allison Street Car Park in Birmingham (Premier Parking Enforcement owned by Walton Wilkins, IPC member). No idea about the landowner as it's just a private car park and not a retail park or anything.

On arrival, found a bay but there was another car parked sideways next to the bay and not in an actual marked bay. That car wasn't displaying any P&D ticket at all and looked like it had been parked up there for ages (dust on windscreen etc). Had I parked fully within the marked bay, it would have prevented the other car from being able to get out from where it was parked and the risk was it may have hit my car trying to exit. Whilst I know the car had clearly been parked there for ages, it would be my sods law that it would want to leave while I was there!

To prevent this, I parked slightly forwards meaning the car wasn't fully in the marked bay ... but allowing enough space for the other car to easily reverse back and drive out safely. I made sure that my car was not intruding on any other parking bay. I wasn't parked on any lines. I wasn't blocking or preventing any other car from entering or leaving a bay or the car park. In theory, whether I had parked fully in the bay or not, it would have made no difference at all to anyone apart from the badly parked car which wouldn't have been able to leave had I parked in the bay fully.

Paid for the parking and returned within the allotted time to find a PCN on the car for 'not parking wholly within a bay'.

The other thing to note here is that the other car which wasn't parked in a bay at all was still there but wasn't given a PCN. The fact it wasn't parked in a bay at all would warrant it getting a PCN for at least the same contravention that I was given a PCN for.

I took some pictures of the positioning of both cars to show my reasoning for parking as I did. However, I did not take any other pictures eg. signage.

I am now in the position of seeing if they send an NTK as per the advice on the forum before I do anything further.

Having read all the posts here about the high risk of rejection on IPC/IAS appeals including a long post regarding that specific car park which has been ongoing for several months, I am wondering whether to just pay it as I did park slightly outside the bay or whether to progress on the fact that I parked out of courtesy for the other car and to prevent the risk of my car being damaged. Also, to question why I got a PCN and the other car didn't and also why the other car wasn't displaying a valid P&D ticket.

Any initial thoughts while I wait for the NTK? 

Thx
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Comments

  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 57,993
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    edited 7 November 2023 at 8:09AM
    As above, what another motorist may or may not have done is irrelevant. If the other car has been there for a while, it is possible that it is on an exempt whitelist. Alternatively, it could be a bait car, left by the PPC to force other motorists to breach the Ts and Cs. Proving the latter however will be nigh on impossible.

    The following is courtesy of regular poster @Umkomaas.

    SOME IDEAS ON DETERMINING WHO OWNS THE LAND: 

    1. Google searches
    2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets
    3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent
    4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent
    5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)
    6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 
    7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail
    8. If you haven't already done so, give us the name of the car park/site/location, we may have seen other cases there. 
    I married my cousin. I had to...
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    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • balsingh
    balsingh Posts: 1,490
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    edited 7 November 2023 at 9:23AM
    Thanks. Car Park location https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4772296,-1.8902561,3a,28.4y,89.98h,84.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOuyFnm-lQ-XGxoco0r5U7A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

    Note that I live 100 miles from there so getting back to get additional photos etc may be difficult.
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  • If you have photos of the positioning of the cars then just keep hold of them. Irrespective of whether the other car received a PCN or not, has no bearing on your position. So, forget that line of thought.

    Just follow the advice as per the Newbies/FAQ thread, as you have been doing. Try Plan A first and then if no luck try a Plan B appeal. You already know that you are dealing with the bottom-dwelling end of the parking industry and it should come as no surprise when your appeal is rejected.

    You already know that a Plan C appeal to the IPC will be a waste of your time and energy but feel free to "have a go". Plan D will be your saviour, if/when they ever decide to send an LoC/LBC and you can then concentrate on the second post of the Newbies/FAQ thread for instruction.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,378
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    edited 7 November 2023 at 2:29PM
    I got a speeding fine last week, whether other cars got a speeding fine is irrelevant.
    Speeding fines are usually genuine. Private parking charges are considered scams.  They are not 'fines' either, so there's no comparison.

    In this case, IMHO it's obvious who parked the other car at an angle. Ex-clampers are sneaky greedy gits and this guy is notorious.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,378
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    edited 7 November 2023 at 2:43PM
    balsingh said:

    On arrival, found a bay but there was another car parked sideways next to the bay and not in an actual marked bay.

    That car wasn't displaying any P&D ticket at all and looked like it had been parked up there for ages (dust on windscreen etc).


    Thanks. Car Park location https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4772296,-1.8902561,3a,28.4y,89.98h,84.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOuyFnm-lQ-XGxoco0r5U7A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

    Note that I live 100 miles from there so getting back to get additional photos etc may be difficult.
    Does that same car show as parked there permanently? IMHO it's an obvious trap.

    Car not displaying a PDT and covered in dust?!  Haha, this is classic entrapment.

    Likely there as a plant IMHO.  It wan't going anywhere. It's likely a prop to make more money for the ex-clamper.

    You don't have to worry about Mr Wilkins. Come back if you get a court claim (easy to defend) but - really important - DO tell his greedy firm, if you move house.


    P.S. 
    I would never in a million years have used that grotty rubbish-strewn ex-clampers signed car park!  You can park on street in Coventry Street and other streets there (I just did a quick virtual drive-round).

    Always use Council car parks or pay & display on-street. It's the only place safe from scammers in UK towns.

    Do NOT look for car parks to park a car.  Absolute last resort only and certainly NOT anywhere with a mustard yellow IPC roundel on the sign.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • SilverTeddy11
    SilverTeddy11 Posts: 35
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    edited 7 November 2023 at 7:38PM
    balsingh said:

    On arrival, found a bay but there was another car parked sideways next to the bay and not in an actual marked bay.

    That car wasn't displaying any P&D ticket at all and looked like it had been parked up there for ages (dust on windscreen etc).

    Thanks. Car Park location https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4772296,-1.8902561,3a,28.4y,89.98h,84.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOuyFnm-lQ-XGxoco0r5U7A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

    Note that I live 100 miles from there so getting back to get additional photos etc may be difficult.
    Does that same car show as parked there permanently? IMHO it's an obvious trap.

    Car not displaying a PDT and covered in dust?!  Haha, this is classic entrapment.

    Likely there as a plant IMHO.  It wan't going anywhere. It's likely a prop to make more money for the ex-clamper.

    You don't have to worry about Mr Wilkins. Come back if you get a court claim (easy to defend) but - really important - DO tell his greedy firm, if you move house.


    P.S. 
    I would never in a million years have used that grotty rubbish-strewn ex-clampers signed car park!  You can park on street in Coventry Street and other streets there (I just did a quick virtual drive-round).

    Always use Council car parks or pay & display on-street. It's the only place safe from scammers in UK towns.

    Do NOT look for car parks to park a car.  Absolute last resort only and certainly NOT anywhere with a mustard yellow IPC roundel on the sign.
    I wouldn't park in Coventry Street Car Park, several cars including mine were severely vandalised (front and parts stolen) while parked there (and continue to be stolen/vandalised). There is no CCTV, and I've seen multiple vehicles at different points in the year suffer the same fate. The 3 tickets that I'm fighting against for parking in Alison Street are for a car that I no longer own due to being written off post-vandalism (parking in Coventry Street Car Park after I was deterred by the 3 tickets I received in Alison Street). My insurance premium also sky rocketed thanks to all of this mess. :) 

    The street parking is okay but it's frequently full and limited to a certain number of hours (unless after 1800, before 0800)
  • balsingh
    balsingh Posts: 1,490
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    Thanks for all the advice so far. Trust me, I will not be parking there again. Lesson learned! 

    For now, I'll see if I can find out who the landowner is while I wait for a NTK. @SilverTeddy11 were you ever able to find out who the landowner was?

    Is there anything else I should be doing right now before the NTK arrives (likelihood is that it will based on the previous threads I have read).

    On a separate note, is there any line of thought from anyone that I should just pay it and put it behind me (eg. someone who has dealt with this person before and struggled to get anywhere???)


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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,378
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    edited 7 November 2023 at 10:58PM
    "On a separate note, is there any line of thought from anyone that I should just pay it and put it behind me (eg. someone who has dealt with this person before and struggled to get anywhere?"
    No.

    We beat this ex-clamper every time. Obviously not at appeal stage but you only need to search the forum for his name to read all about cases v that idiot.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • balsingh
    balsingh Posts: 1,490
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    "On a separate note, is there any line of thought from anyone that I should just pay it and put it behind me (eg. someone who has dealt with this person before and struggled to get anywhere?"
    No.

    We beat this ex-clamper every time. Obviously not at appeal stage but you only need to search the forum for his name to read all about cases v that idiot.
    okay. let's do this! thx.
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