Solicitor doesn't believe the freeholder - Building Safety Act

littlemissbliss

I am 6 months into buying a leasehold flat in Essex.

So far the process has been so long as i have had to wait for the vendors to find a place to live, once they had and the chain was completed i could then instruct my solicitors. 

Just about everything has been wrapped up and I have signed and sent off the contract. 

However...

My solicitors are still awaiting a couple of enquiries. That will be the certificates for the building safety act. The freeholder and the vendors solicitor are saying the building doesn't fall under the safety act, however my solicitor is counting the windows going up the building and coming to the conclusion that it does. There are 4 floors containing flats but there is a row of 5 windows. 
The issue is that my deed expires on the 20th of this month - i can get an extension if my solicitor can say it will get completed within the extension timeframe - which she can't.

Is there anything I can do to get this moving? I have thought about asking the company that did my survey to check this out even though it will be an additional fee.
From what i can see - I either have a solicitor that doesn't believe the freeholder. Or a freeholder that doesn't have the certificates for the building. Either way i am screwed. 

Thanks 
 

propertyrental

Are you referring to the requirements for 'higher risk buildings'? A quick look at the 2022 Act suggests they are defined as "

a building in England that—(a) is at least 18 metres in height or has at least 7 storeys, and(b)contains at least 2 residential units.

The 1984 Act (as amended) also says:

Meaning of “higher-risk building”: England (1) This section applies for the purposes of this Act as it applies in relation to England.  (2)“Higher-risk building” means a building in England that— (a)is at least 18 metres in height or has at least 7 storeys, and (b)is of a description specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State

Strangely the Gov guidance says

Building owners will not legally be able to charge qualifying leaseholders (defined under the Act but including those living in their own homes and with no more than three UK properties in total) for any costs in circumstances where a building (in the majority of cases meaning those over five storeys or eleven metres tall) requires cladding to be removed or remediated.

But even that suggests 6 or more storeys.

But maybe I'm missing something.....

littlemissbliss

I know its so confusing.
I have no idea how high the building is, and thus no idea who is right and who is wrong. Hence why i thought about asking the survey company to go back out and check it (if they can do that). 

Its not a high rise building, its an old factory. Durrant Court in Chelmsford. I am guessing it looks under the height that would apply but then i can't tell from just looking. 

Flats being sold on the 4th floor are being noted as the top floor, so this would tell me its 4 floors (unless the 5th floor is storage space). But my solicitor is going on how many windows it has, and wont shift. Even though the freeholder is saying it dosen't fall under the safety act. 

BlueVeranda

I can't help with the building height, but are there flats on the ground floor? A flat on the 4th floor would be 5 storeys up. There's a diagram here that may be useful:

https://www.englishclub.com/vocabulary/floors-building.php

propertyrental

BlueVeranda said:

I can't help with the building height, but are there flats on the ground floor? A flat on the 4th floor would be 5 storeys up. There's a diagram here that may be useful:

https://www.englishclub.com/vocabulary/floors-building.php

But even the guidance (which seems at odds with the actual Acts) says over 5 stories. ie 6+.

my solicitor is counting the windows going up the building and coming to the conclusion that it does. There are 4 floors containing flats but there is a row of 5 windows. 

solicitor does not seem concerned about height, but about number of storeys.

littlemissbliss

That is correct, although looking at the Land Registry Document the floors are marked as : Ground, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. So this would put it at 5 floors. Its an old building built in the 1800s no maybe they are higher? 

1 October 2023, the provisions of section 156 of the Building Safety Act 2022 (BSA) came into force, introducing a number of changes to the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 (FSO). - so i am guessing its this.

I just dont know where to go from here. 

Martico

I'd be surprised if there isn't a free app to measure the height of the building if you need

Jude57

littlemissbliss said:

That is correct, although looking at the Land Registry Document the floors are marked as : Ground, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. So this would put it at 5 floors. Its an old building built in the 1800s no maybe they are higher? 

1 October 2023, the provisions of section 156 of the Building Safety Act 2022 (BSA) came into force, introducing a number of changes to the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 (FSO). - so i am guessing its this.

I just dont know where to go from here. 

You could try speaking to the Planning department at the local authority. They'll have archived records (hopefully stored electronically) of the plans submitted for the change of use from commercial to domestic and these would show the front elevation with dimensions. They might be prepared to e-mail you that information, or if they can't help, might be able to suggest where you could get more information, say, Building Control, for example.

BlueVeranda

propertyrental said:

BlueVeranda said:

I can't help with the building height, but are there flats on the ground floor? A flat on the 4th floor would be 5 storeys up. There's a diagram here that may be useful:

https://www.englishclub.com/vocabulary/floors-building.php

But even the guidance (which seems at odds with the actual Acts) says over 5 stories. ie 6+.

Yes, I'm not commenting on the issue with the solicitor, just on the alleged discrepancy between counting windows/floors.

littlemissbliss

Jude57 said:

littlemissbliss said:

That is correct, although looking at the Land Registry Document the floors are marked as : Ground, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. So this would put it at 5 floors. Its an old building built in the 1800s no maybe they are higher? 

1 October 2023, the provisions of section 156 of the Building Safety Act 2022 (BSA) came into force, introducing a number of changes to the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 (FSO). - so i am guessing its this.

I just dont know where to go from here. 

You could try speaking to the Planning department at the local authority. They'll have archived records (hopefully stored electronically) of the plans submitted for the change of use from commercial to domestic and these would show the front elevation with dimensions. They might be prepared to e-mail you that information, or if they can't help, might be able to suggest where you could get more information, say, Building Control, for example.

Thanks for this info, do you know how i would find this out (Planning department at the local authority). I am completely new to all this as a first time buyer :-)

Jude57

littlemissbliss said:

Jude57 said:

littlemissbliss said:

That is correct, although looking at the Land Registry Document the floors are marked as : Ground, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. So this would put it at 5 floors. Its an old building built in the 1800s no maybe they are higher? 

1 October 2023, the provisions of section 156 of the Building Safety Act 2022 (BSA) came into force, introducing a number of changes to the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 (FSO). - so i am guessing its this.

I just dont know where to go from here. 

You could try speaking to the Planning department at the local authority. They'll have archived records (hopefully stored electronically) of the plans submitted for the change of use from commercial to domestic and these would show the front elevation with dimensions. They might be prepared to e-mail you that information, or if they can't help, might be able to suggest where you could get more information, say, Building Control, for example.

Thanks for this info, do you know how i would find this out (Planning department at the local authority). I am completely new to all this as a first time buyer :-)

Apologies for the delay in replying. It's the Planning department at the local Council, the one you'd pay Council Tax to. I see that there are 12 local Councils in Essex which deal with Planning among other issues. For details of what they do see here:

https://www.essex.gov.uk/running-council/who-does-what-essex/county-council-and-local-councils#


Click on the Council you need. Otherwise, each local Council has a website with the suffix .gov.uk so for example, you could access Braintree Council's website by typing Braintree.gov.uk into your search engine. Here's what Braintree's site looks like:

https://www.braintree.gov.uk/

From the Council's homepage you'll be able to find the Planning department's contact information or the general switchboard number where you can ask to be put through to the Planning department.

Hope this helps.