Solicitor doesn't believe the freeholder - Building Safety Act

subjecttocontract

I don't understand why your solicitor has an issue:-
1.   Of course it will have a vertical row of 5 windows if there is a ground, first, second, third & forth floor.......that's 5 floors and therefore falls outside the legislation.
2.    X5 floors at 3 metres a floor = 15 metres so that also falls outside of the legislation.
Do you perhaps have a solicitor that isn't very good at math ?

EssexHebridean

Looking at the building, it appears to have 5 stories.

For those having a pop at the solicitor, bear in mind they will not have seen the property - the usual means of dealing with something like this is the buying solicitor asks the selling one to confirm if the building is covered by the act, they say no, the buying solicitor asks them to confirm why they believe this is the case - so in this scenario the response would be "the building is comprised of 5 stories", then asks the buyer to confirm that is correct. 

user1977

Jude57 said:

littlemissbliss said:

Jude57 said:

littlemissbliss said:

That is correct, although looking at the Land Registry Document the floors are marked as : Ground, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. So this would put it at 5 floors. Its an old building built in the 1800s no maybe they are higher? 

1 October 2023, the provisions of section 156 of the Building Safety Act 2022 (BSA) came into force, introducing a number of changes to the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 (FSO). - so i am guessing its this.

I just dont know where to go from here. 

You could try speaking to the Planning department at the local authority. They'll have archived records (hopefully stored electronically) of the plans submitted for the change of use from commercial to domestic and these would show the front elevation with dimensions. They might be prepared to e-mail you that information, or if they can't help, might be able to suggest where you could get more information, say, Building Control, for example.

Thanks for this info, do you know how i would find this out (Planning department at the local authority). I am completely new to all this as a first time buyer :-)

Apologies for the delay in replying. It's the Planning department at the local Council, the one you'd pay Council Tax to. I see that there are 12 local Councils in Essex which deal with Planning among other issues. For details of what they do see here:

https://www.essex.gov.uk/running-council/who-does-what-essex/county-council-and-local-councils#


Click on the Council you need. Otherwise, each local Council has a website with the suffix .gov.uk so for example, you could access Braintree Council's website by typing Braintree.gov.uk into your search engine. Here's what Braintree's site looks like:

https://www.braintree.gov.uk/

From the Council's homepage you'll be able to find the Planning department's contact information or the general switchboard number where you can ask to be put through to the Planning department.

Hope this helps.

Here's the application for the conversion to flats:

https://planning.chelmsford.gov.uk/planning/planning-documents?SDescription=95/05427/FUL

Unfortunately I can't see a drawing with dimensions showing the height, but assuming the height in the regulations refers to the total height of the building (including the roof), and that 3m is probably a bit too conservative for this style of building, I suspect it does hit 18m.

There's also this application described as being "to construct 27m high chimney" which again doesn't have dimensions but assuming the plans are scaled correctly I would say the main roof is over 20m on that.

https://planning.chelmsford.gov.uk/planning/planning-documents?SDescription=88/2368

littlemissbliss

Jude57 said:

littlemissbliss said:

Jude57 said:

littlemissbliss said:

That is correct, although looking at the Land Registry Document the floors are marked as : Ground, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. So this would put it at 5 floors. Its an old building built in the 1800s no maybe they are higher? 

1 October 2023, the provisions of section 156 of the Building Safety Act 2022 (BSA) came into force, introducing a number of changes to the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 (FSO). - so i am guessing its this.

I just dont know where to go from here. 

You could try speaking to the Planning department at the local authority. They'll have archived records (hopefully stored electronically) of the plans submitted for the change of use from commercial to domestic and these would show the front elevation with dimensions. They might be prepared to e-mail you that information, or if they can't help, might be able to suggest where you could get more information, say, Building Control, for example.

Thanks for this info, do you know how i would find this out (Planning department at the local authority). I am completely new to all this as a first time buyer :-)

Apologies for the delay in replying. It's the Planning department at the local Council, the one you'd pay Council Tax to. I see that there are 12 local Councils in Essex which deal with Planning among other issues. For details of what they do see here:

https://www.essex.gov.uk/running-council/who-does-what-essex/county-council-and-local-councils#


Click on the Council you need. Otherwise, each local Council has a website with the suffix .gov.uk so for example, you could access Braintree Council's website by typing Braintree.gov.uk into your search engine. Here's what Braintree's site looks like:

https://www.braintree.gov.uk/

From the Council's homepage you'll be able to find the Planning department's contact information or the general switchboard number where you can ask to be put through to the Planning department.

Hope this helps.

Many thanks - I have just emailed them. I will try calling if i haven't heard back by the end of the week. 

If the building does indeed fall under the safety act, i will assume the freeholder (or landlord) doesn't have the certificates. In which case I have no idea what happens then. 
That said, there is over 400 flats in the building, i am pretty sure they have run into this before (if they have sold a flat there recently).  I am not sure what the freeholder gains from lying about it. 

subjecttocontract

It would be almost inconceivable for a building containing 400 flats to require a certificate and the freeholders not to have one. It therefore follows that it's very likely it doesn't need a certificate. If your solicitor is just hung up on a row of 5 vertical windows as the reason they don't believe the freeholders I'd be inclined to pen a firm but polite message that 5 floors in itself DOES NOT require a certificate.

littlemissbliss

I will message my solicitor tomorrow to see if there are any updates. 

What I don’t know (and this is probably a separate question). The contract is signed and sent, this was before I knew there was a delay. If my deed runs out and I have to jump on a higher interest rate because of this delay can I pull out? Or am I stuck now the contract is signed?
Kinda wish they hadn’t sent me it if they wasn’t ready. As I’d rather not be forced to be on a higher interest rate against my will.

littlemissbliss

Ththe building 
Not that high to me 

user1977

littlemissbliss said:

I will message my solicitor tomorrow to see if there are any updates. 

What I don’t know (and this is probably a separate question). The contract is signed and sent, this was before I knew there was a delay. If my deed runs out and I have to jump on a higher interest rate because of this delay can I pull out? Or am I stuck now the contract is signed?
Kinda wish they hadn’t sent me it if they wasn’t ready. As I’d rather not be forced to be on a higher interest rate against my will.

Signing the contract doesn't mean anything, contracts are only exchanged when the solicitors are ready to do so.

subjecttocontract

littlemissbliss said:

Ththe building 
Not that high to me 

Based on the white door being 2 metres high, the building scales at 14 metres and the highest point (the square structure adds 4 metres = 18 metres.

GDB2222

I checked Google street view and it looks like the ground floor has a ceiling height of 3.5 to 4m. The upper floors say 3m. Plus the roof and those square towers on top. It could easily be well over 18m in total. 

It’s frustrating that you can’t just buy it, but I don’t think you should assume that your solicitor is wrong and other solicitors acting for other buyers are correct. For a start, you don’t know how many sales fell through because the buyers' solicitors agreed with yours.