EU/UK261 - claiming Duty of Care expenses without receipts

Just wondering if anyone here has experience making such a claim in England, without being able to provide receipts because they paid most items in cash?

Particularly if the claimant possesses evidence that the airline did not inform a passenger of their rights (as required by APPR), the airline repeatedly supplied provably false information in relation to the initial UK261 claim (for compensation and flight refund only), and subsequently the ADR ruled the airline wrongly denied boarding and awarded £520 in compensation to the claimant.

Perhaps there is a court precedent for a daily amount that the airline can be reasonably expected to pay in the absence of receipts?

Thank you.

Comments

  • Wonka_2
    Wonka_2 Posts: 610
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    A bit more information is likely to be needed - but assuming it was a qualifying flight then the expectation would be that you can support the claims with evidence (usually receipts). For low values or for items where a receipt might not be readily accessible (i.e. local bus fare) then there's likely to be flexibility but 'paying cash' doesn't overrule the need for a receipt/proof of purchase.

    What are you attempting to claim for and for what sort of values ?
  • Thanks. It is a qualifying flight. With TAP Air Portugal, from New York to London, denied boarding for erroneous reasons. I ended up flying one month later.

    This was three years ago, which I know is long ago. Although I attempted to rebook multiple times, which was rejected, I did not make a claim for compensation until last year. TAP denied my UK261 claim for compensation and flight refund, but AviationADR ruled in my favour. TAP repeatedly supplied false information during this process, which I was able to prove through FOI requests. 

    At the time I was denied boarding, I wasn't aware of the EU261 APPR and was not informed either. On telephone calls, I was not informed either. I was informed that I was not eligible for a free rebooking, which implies TAP did not think I was eligible under EU261. 

    There are two aspects to any claim for duty of care here:

    1. The number of days it is reasonable to claim for. As I said, TAP would not rebook me despite my attempts to do so multiple times over the following days and weeks. 
    2. I was not aware I could reclaim expenses and do not have proof of many of these expenses. 

    TAP say 3 days of expenses is reasonable (I disagree and at that time a PCR test was required and would have been difficult to obtain at such short notice), and 150 GBP per day for accommodation plus 50 GBP for meals. However, they require receipts. As I needed to find accommodation immediately (it was 11pm), I asked my AirBNB host and she put me in touch with her neighbour, who I paid cash to. Some of my meal expenses were on card, so I have evidence from bank statements, but many other meals were paid in cash. Total expenses over 7 days would be in the region of 1500 GBP. 

    Of course, I had to eat and live somewhere, so it seems unreasonable to me that TAP can pretend I camped on the street and ate air in the absence of documented proof to the contrary. Particularly as they did not fulfil their obligations to inform me of my rights.




  • Wonka_2
    Wonka_2 Posts: 610
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    Thanks. It is a qualifying flight. With TAP Air Portugal, from New York to London, denied boarding for erroneous reasons. I ended up flying one month later.

    This was three years ago, which I know is long ago. Although I attempted to rebook multiple times, which was rejected, I did not make a claim for compensation until last year. TAP denied my UK261 claim for compensation and flight refund, but AviationADR ruled in my favour. TAP repeatedly supplied false information during this process, which I was able to prove through FOI requests. 

    At the time I was denied boarding, I wasn't aware of the EU261 APPR and was not informed either. On telephone calls, I was not informed either. I was informed that I was not eligible for a free rebooking, which implies TAP did not think I was eligible under EU261. 

    There are two aspects to any claim for duty of care here:

    1. The number of days it is reasonable to claim for. As I said, TAP would not rebook me despite my attempts to do so multiple times over the following days and weeks. 
    2. I was not aware I could reclaim expenses and do not have proof of many of these expenses. 

    TAP say 3 days of expenses is reasonable (I disagree and at that time a PCR test was required and would have been difficult to obtain at such short notice), and 150 GBP per day for accommodation plus 50 GBP for meals. However, they require receipts. As I needed to find accommodation immediately (it was 11pm), I asked my AirBNB host and she put me in touch with her neighbour, who I paid cash to. Some of my meal expenses were on card, so I have evidence from bank statements, but many other meals were paid in cash. Total expenses over 7 days would be in the region of 1500 GBP. 

    Of course, I had to eat and live somewhere, so it seems unreasonable to me that TAP can pretend I camped on the street and ate air in the absence of documented proof to the contrary. Particularly as they did not fulfil their obligations to inform me of my rights.





    So given the timing this was disputed regulations on whether you qualified to fly/would have been accepted into UK ? And at the time you lost the argument with them and there was no alternative flight within a month ?

    Assuming you've received your £520 then that was probably the time to be challenging the remainder but you'll be in the realms of court challenges now to try and retrieve £1.5k+ with no receipts after 3 years. Is there anything in the wording of the AviationADR ruling that gives any hope for further claim ?

    Maybe one of the wiser residents of the board can give some brighter news but I'd be chalking it up to a cost of still being alive during Covid (and potentially, depending on the exact timings, not having to had to blow a similar amount on quarantine hotels on your arrival)
  • So given the timing this was disputed regulations on whether you qualified to fly/would have been accepted into UK ? And at the time you lost the argument with them and there was no alternative flight within a month ?

    It was actually the requirements for transit through Portugal. I was qualified to fly, but their check-in person mistakenly believed I wasn't. There were alternative flights, so I am not wanting to claim for the whole month. Rather, for a reasonable number of days from being wrongfully denied boarding. As PCR tests were required, it would have been extremely difficult to fulfil the requirements within the three days TAP Air Portugal is saying is reasonable. And they would not rebook me to a new flight, in any case.

    Assuming you've received your £520 then that was probably the time to be challenging the remainder but you'll be in the realms of court challenges now to try and retrieve £1.5k+ with no receipts after 3 years. Is there anything in the wording of the AviationADR ruling that gives any hope for further claim ?

    Yep, definitely should have made the claim for duty of care at the time I applied (and won) for compensation. Rookie mistake!  AviationADR's determination does not mention anything about duty of care claims but does state "This determination is not binding on the passenger who still has the option to pursue the complaint via the courts".

    (and potentially, depending on the exact timings, not having to had to blow a similar amount on quarantine hotels on your arrival)

    I did in fact quarantine in a hotel on entry to the UK! Was visiting my elderly mother, so was being extra extra careful. 

    There's the financial side to this, but also that TAP Air Portugal lied repeatedly (variously claiming Portuguese entry restrictions, UK entry restrictions, my test was not administered by an 'approved' lab, the test was not administered within 72 hours of departure - all I was able to prove to be utter bs) and I want to make them pay for their fraudulent behaviour. 

    I have time on my hands, so want to send a Letter before court claim, but it would be really useful to be able to quote any prior judgements to bolster my case for them to make payment instead of going to the County Court. 
  • DullGreyGuy
    DullGreyGuy Posts: 9,182
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    When were your flights back? You say 3 years ago which would put it at circa Oct 2020 by which point PCR tests were taking about 48 hours (I had to do a few short notice ones earlier in late summer/early autumn) and so 3 nights / 4 days doesn't sound too terrible an offer.

    No matter if you pay cash, card or do a trade is totally independent to if you ask for a receipt or not. Presumably you were hoping to get the money back from someone when you "checked in" and so seems odd you didn't get a receipt. They clearly will be asking for some proof as otherwise you may have been staying with a friend for all they know. 

    At 11pm at night why did you ask your host rather than going online? Even if it was for 1 night why didn't you check for somewhere in the morning? What did you do to validate that £150/night was reasonable? 

    I didn't go to the US during this period, non-US residents were barred from direct flights from the UK or if you'd been in the UK within the last 2 weeks but would assume that like London the prices of hotels etc crashed. A colleague that normally spends £200 a night room only was getting B&B at the same hotel in the City for £30.  
  • I think you misread my post or I worded it poorly. The flight was from New York to London.

    The airline stated to me they would pay 150 GBP per night for accommodation in NYC, if I supply receipts. 

    I contacted the AirBNB host because I liked where I had been staying and knew I would need somewhere for many days while sorting this out. Remember, I had recently had a PCR test (again, in NYC) and knew I would need to wait at least two or three days to have another and then one-two days to receive the results.

    I already stated I was not aware of my rights, so I was not expecting to get the money back from the airline (and my travel insurance was medical-only). 

    I appreciate why airlines ordinarily require receipts. However, given that I was not informed of my rights, the airline did not fulfil any of its obligations under EU261 and made provably false claims while stringing the process along, I am hoping that they can be pressured into granting a reasonable daily allowance for accommodation and meals. 

    Anyway, I have no wish to argue the point. All I want to know is if there is any court precedent, where fixed amounts have been awarded in the absence of receipts because it was considered unreasonable to require such receipts in the circumstances. 
  • To clarify:

    The airline recently stated to me they would pay up to 150 GBP for up to three days for accommodation costs. at the time of being denied boarding, I was not informed that I could claim accommodation or anything else.

    I believe three days is not reasonable in the circumstances. I have made a FOI request to the relevant health authority to hopefully obtain information on average wait times for PCR tests at that time. I have also made a GDPR request to the airline, to confirm that I made multiple efforts to be rebooked and was denied. I believe together this will demonstrate that seven days is more reasonable. 

    I want to then argue that it is unreasonable to expect receipts in the circumstances and the airline should arrive at a reasonable figure for these expenses as full and final settlement of my claim.
  • mdann52
    mdann52 Posts: 50
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    I appreciate why airlines ordinarily require receipts. However, given that I was not informed of my rights, the airline did not fulfil any of its obligations under EU261 and made provably false claims while stringing the process along, I am hoping that they can be pressured into granting a reasonable daily allowance for accommodation and meals. 
    Bear in mind if bought online, many airlines will inform you of your rights on the booking and check in page along with the T&Cs (and have a poster at check in), so there is a good chance they will provide this as "proof" you said you were aware of your rights under EC261.
  • mdann52 said:

    I appreciate why airlines ordinarily require receipts. However, given that I was not informed of my rights, the airline did not fulfil any of its obligations under EU261 and made provably false claims while stringing the process along, I am hoping that they can be pressured into granting a reasonable daily allowance for accommodation and meals. 
    Bear in mind if bought online, many airlines will inform you of your rights on the booking and check in page along with the T&Cs (and have a poster at check in), so there is a good chance they will provide this as "proof" you said you were aware of your rights under EC261.
    Thanks. I have found the T&Cs in force at the time (via archive.org) and it does state that "TAP PORTUGAL will offer you the following assistance". As they did not do this, I will argue that their failure to fulfil that obligation negates my own failure to ensure I had receipts. Hopefully, that will bolster my case for a full and final settlement..
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