Is it worth getting a new gas installation in 2023?

Spoonie_Turtle

FreeBear said:

Spoonie_Turtle said: Putting in panel heaters and running at single rate is almost the most expensive form of heating you could have, second only to running them at peak rate.

An electric boiler & radiators would be the worst 

True, I forgot that that exists!

RedFraggle

I love my dimplex quantums they hold heat to the extent that in milder weather they don't charge every day and they are fully programmable albeit in advance. 
One thing to check is your lease. Does it allow you to have gas heating put in? 

Chris_b2z

If you decide to stay with Economy 7 throughout this winter then make sure you check the off-peak rate. Suppliers were forced to change their pricing to better reflect their 'average' user base. This adjustment happened during the summer months when heating wasn't being used.

I found that the Scottish Power E7 off-peak rate in my area had increased by 53% over the past year. Other suppliers would definitaly be more competitive for anyone with storage heaters.

QrizB

Chris_b2z said:

 Suppliers were forced to change their pricing to better reflect their 'average' user base.

I've not heard that particular claim before. So you have any evidence? A link to an Ofgem document, for example?

What is true is that the day/night split is at the discretion of the supplier, and that some suppliers have a wider split than others.  EDF, tor example, typically have cheaper off-peak rates but more expensive peak ones than Octopus do. Depending on your own split of day/night use, your choice of supplier will affect your total bill.

Chris_b2z

QrizB said:

I've not heard that particular claim before. So you have any evidence? A link to an Ofgem document, for example?

How about this -
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/team-blog/2023/08/-typical--energy-use-has-fallen---don-t-mistake-it-for-significa/

EssexHebridean

The new High heat retention NSH’s are a world away from the older ones in terms of control ability. @RedFraggle who has already posted in the thread is probably your best go-to for info about the Quantums - we had one fitted in our old home and it was excellent - had we been planning on staying longer we would certainly have replaced one other old style one with the same. Once you learn to trust their ability to adjust for weather conditions they need relatively little input, although keeping a bit of an eye on the weather a few days ahead is still a good idea in case anything dramatic is expected! RedFraggle has Quantums in a slightly newer generation than ours, and those allow drilling down into the data of how each heater has performed as well, which I suspect helps with the learning curve if you are data minded! 

We lived with NSHs for 20 years. When we first moved to the flat I confess we were very uneasy about them - having heard horror stories, but we changed one completely past it old style one fairly early on - this was before HHR ones were a thing but the replacement was still masses better as it had far better insulation than any of our older ones did, so did hold the heat better. Indeed, with output set right back to minimum it would cheerfully give out heat right through to mid evening, albeit at diminishing levels past late afternoon. For our flat, I genuinely don’t think once we got to grips with the intricacies of heating via NSHs we could have heated it much cheaper using gas - BUT that would be a different scenario for a house or maisonette with split level living, IMO. Possible, certainly, but I would suggest doing a lot of research and a ot of reading to bring yourself up to speed with the intricacies I mentioned as soon as possible, 

dunstonh

If you decide to stay with Economy 7 throughout this winter then make sure you check the off-peak rate. Suppliers were forced to change their pricing to better reflect their 'average' user base. This adjustment happened during the summer months when heating wasn't being used.

Evidence for that?
There has been nothing documented about a recent change that forced pricing models.  There was one quarter where it was found that E7 users benefitted from a calculation error that led to lower prices and it was corrected the following quarter.  That received a lot of misinformation from the media and some consumer groups who regarded it as an increase rather than a lucky break for three months.

What you have seen is that some suppliers looked at their supply by region and found some regions have greater excess off peak generation than others.   And some suppliers then re-priced to attract a target market.    The most notable of which is EDF in Eastern region where off-peak is 8p.   This is largely due to Sizewell, renewables and low volume of heavy manufacturing along with Eastern not being that well connected to the rest of the grid (originally it was a self contained regional grid).   This results in a high excess of electricity during off-peak times and the cost to purchase off peak in that time is very low.

However, this started to become apparent in the Autumn of 2022.  Not the summer.

How about this -
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/team-blog/2023/08/-typical--energy-use-has-fallen---don-t-mistake-it-for-significa/

That doesn't explain it.  That is a different thing.  Thats a case of causation vs correlation.

I found that the Scottish Power E7 off-peak rate in my area had increased by 53% over the past year. Other suppliers would definitaly be more competitive for anyone with storage heaters.

it is true that economy 7 is a more competitive market than single rate and that different suppliers target different types of consumers and you should shop around based on your ratio.  e.g. a 70% off peak user would be better with a low off peak rate and high peak rate.  Whereas a 35% off peak user would be better with a less favourable off peak rate.

born_again

FreeBear said:

Spoonie_Turtle said: Putting in panel heaters and running at single rate is almost the most expensive form of heating you could have, second only to running them at peak rate.

An electric boiler & radiators would be the worst - If you are going to install a wet heating system, might as well go for gas with oversized radiators & large bore pipework. You get to run the system at a lower flow temperature which translates in to higher efficiency. Added bonus, you should only need minor modifications when ASHP is the only replacement option.

ASHP. 
Why not go straight to that & take advantage of the £7.5K grant.

Spoonie_Turtle

born_again said:

FreeBear said:

Spoonie_Turtle said: Putting in panel heaters and running at single rate is almost the most expensive form of heating you could have, second only to running them at peak rate.

An electric boiler & radiators would be the worst - If you are going to install a wet heating system, might as well go for gas with oversized radiators & large bore pipework. You get to run the system at a lower flow temperature which translates in to higher efficiency. Added bonus, you should only need minor modifications when ASHP is the only replacement option.

ASHP. 
Why not go straight to that & take advantage of the £7.5K grant.

OP said in their first post they're not an option (presumably because maisonette is essentially a flat).

Meatballs

Unclear reason why you can't have a heat pump but air to air (air con) is generally a decent option and affordable to install in small properties even without grant.