Challenge Default Judgement : Premier Park Drop Case. Counterclaim denied.

stuart_c2023

LDast said:

Judge bingo. You, unfortunately, had a doozie. Rest satisfied that it cost PP much more than it ever cost you.

Lesson for the hive mind "Judge accepted my argument that the car park system was flawed but as I couldn't cite the particular section of BPA he wouldn't agree that Premier Park were at fault in obtaining information from DVLA and passing on"

Wasn't it referenced in your WS?

Not a specific clause in the document. TBH the BPA document isn't specific on enclosed sites and Para below is as close as you'll get

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/AOS_Code_of_Practice_January_2020_v8(2).pdf

22.3 You must keep any ANPR equipment you use in your car parks in good working order. You need to make sure the data you are collecting is accurate, securely held and cannot be tampered with. The processes that you use to manage your ANPR system may be audited by our compliance team or our agents

Coupon-mad

Gah - that was a bad Judge at Plymouth!.

Clearly (regardless of the BPA CoP) using camera surveillance to film and 'fine' drivers who DO NOT PARK ON THE ENFORCEMENT SITE is illegal under the DPA 2018.

stuart_c2023

Down from seething to annoyed after sleeping (badly) on it.

On reflection a clever move by Premier / Gladstones to discontinue as couldn't even recover costs when it was my counterclaim only dismissed rather than their doomed claim.

Annoyed that nuances of law can take precedence over common sense that they never should have issued a PCN..

Comical that they could have paid me in a settlement in full for the price it has cost them for their representative's 1st class train fare, let alone his fee.

I did ask about right to appeal but the judge pointed out he had not awarded costs as my case was not unreasonable. Another judge may take exception to bringing back the same evidence, which without the smoking bullet in BPA Code of Practice is not a risk I'm willing to take.

Keep up the good fight one and all, and thanks again.

Mikeh2001

I'm sorry you didn't get the result you wanted.  Well done on the efforts in such a ridiculous situation. 

I don't understand this part and I am hoping someone can teach me:

Note from the defence to counter claim the claimant said:

The CRA says (Chapter 4, 49(1)) says: "Every contract to supply a service is to be treated as including a term that the trader must perform the service with reasonable care and skill."

Going as far as pursuring litigation for breaching the terms of a parking contract (presumably a service) that the defendant never even entered into would appear to be epitome of lack of "skill and care"!

What am I missing here other than judge bingo? What is it about distance/remote contracts that both the judge and claimant seems to submit that CRA does not apply?

Coupon-mad

You are not missing anything. It is Judge bingo.

@stuart_c2023

Why not see if you can get your own back and earn yourself £60 (practically your fees!) and help regulate the parking industry.

This is an official thing and MSE Towers has agreed I can share it...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6528490/official-dluhc-paid-research-have-you-ever-appealed-a-parking-charge-notice#latest

I think at the start you either did appeal or wanted to appeal, but that failed?

Anyone who has tried to appeal a private parking charge is invited to put your details in (see link) and see if the DLUHC guys want to have a chat with you next week.

In your case I think they'd be interested to hear what you think about appeals and how a proper bespoke (specialist parking & consumer law & Code of Practice knowledge) ADR with legally trained Adjudicators would be better than the 'bingo' of getting a clueless Judge after trying to fight back in court.

stuart_c2023

Thanks for this.
Hopefully will make some sort of difference as the frustration that nobody actually looked at the details of my case until it made court is the thing that still riles.

Umkomaas

Coupon-mad said:

You are not missing anything. It is Judge bingo.

@stuart_c2023

Why not see if you can get your own back and earn yourself £60 (practically your fees!) and help regulate the parking industry.

This is an official thing and MSE Towers has agreed I can share it...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6528490/official-dluhc-paid-research-have-you-ever-appealed-a-parking-charge-notice#latest

I think at the start you either did appeal or wanted to appeal, but that failed?

Anyone who has tried to appeal a private parking charge is invited to put your details in (see link) and see if the DLUHC guys want to have a chat with you next week.

In your case I think they'd be interested to hear what you think about appeals and how a proper bespoke (specialist parking & consumer law & Code of Practice knowledge) ADR with legally trained Adjudicators would be better than the 'bingo' of getting a clueless Judge after trying to fight back in court.

Please, please, do this: 👆

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6528490/official-dluhc-paid-research-have-you-ever-appealed-a-parking-charge-notice#latest

If you're not aware of the poignancy of the work of Pastor Martin Niemöller, then please do read this - 'First They Came ..... '

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-niemoeller-first-they-came-for-the-socialists

Inspirational. 

WhatOnEarth1010

I joined this forum yesterday to check if there is any good advice for a couple of PCNs I have, in particular if I should pursue a counterclaim. What I found and have particularly seen in threads like these is absolutely shocking and it has been my constant experience with these kinds of forums in the past. I am leaving this as a bit of a PSA, as I almost fell victim to this behaviour myself. 

I understand that those replying here have the best intentions, but at some point intentions are not enough. Yes, there are some success stories, but from looking at the case documents of those cases, they were either far superior than those provided as samples in this forum, the judge made the person's case for them despite their stated case, or the claimant failed to make their case.

None of you, will or can take responsibility for what you preach, comment on, or advise. I do not know your qualifications, but I very much hope that none of them are legal, because that would be a terrible reflection on the state of legal education in this country. 

I decided to comment on this thread because of my perceived quality of the counterclaim here, the sheer volume of comments and the constant back-and-forth between the OP, who seems an entirely honest and reasonable man, and people who, whilst trying to help, don't realise they are never going to be held accountable for the deficiencies of what they advise. If you want to truly help people, learn from mistakes made and don't just assume that it is all down to "judge bingo", it is entirely ridiculous that you presume to have greater expertise than sitting judges on matters they deal with all the time. 

This man's time and money has been wasted because you all tried, and I do not doubt your intentions, to make it seem like his case was iron-clad. Most lawyers I have dealt with don't give assessments on merits of people's cases like that so not to confuse them about the possible outcomes. I would urge that you consider to do the same. Help as much you can and are permitted to, but do so on things you full-well know and don't delude people as to the quality of their cases. It seems to me that you should exercise far greater caution, especially if the people you speak to on here have become claimants. It is very easy to put forward a jumbled up defence that pokes holes in the other side's case when you represent yourself and I do not doubt for a second that a lawyer would be able to poke far more and far bigger holes, but the entire landscape shifts as a claimant.

I say all this with the utmost cordiality and I do think places like this are important to guide people to the rights resources, but when that moves from guidance to legal advice, writing case papers for that person, and bigging their case up so much that they believe they will win without a shadow of a doubt, that becomes, imho, irresponsible. 

LDast

Do you personally know anyone who is a judge, district, high court etc? I have a family member who is a district judge and I regularly discuss with him what goes on in this forum. I also have several close friends who are judges in the high court and crown court. I can assure you that they are all able to make mistakes and agree fully that "judge bingo" plays a part in judgments, especially in the lower courts.

Are you suggesting that, based on years of experience dealing with the crooks and scammers in this industry, that we don't provide advice to the victims of this unregulated industry? Considering that there is more knowledge and experience here when dealing with the private parking industry than 99.99% of most solicitors out there. Don't get us started on something as feeble as the CAB either.

Coupon-mad

Wow. Why so critical of us?

This counterclaim had merit, was based on points of law and should have succeeded. It had more merit than others that succeeded.

The issue here is down to the Judge.

Intrigued to know your interest in this subject. Solicitor?