Challenge Default Judgement : Premier Park Drop Case. Counterclaim denied.

BikingBud

What an "interesting" post.

WhatOnEarth1010 said:

I joined this forum yesterday to check if there is any good advice for a couple of PCNs I have, in particular if I should pursue a counterclaim. What I found and have particularly seen in threads like these is absolutely shocking and it has been my constant experience with these kinds of forums in the past. I am leaving this as a bit of a PSA, as I almost fell victim to this behaviour myself. 

I understand that those replying here have the best intentions, but at some point intentions are not enough. Yes, there are some success stories, but from looking at the case documents of those cases, they were either far superior than those provided as samples in this forum, the judge made the person's case for them despite their stated case, or the claimant failed to make their case.

None of you, will or can take responsibility for what you preach, comment on, or advise. I do not know your qualifications, but I very much hope that none of them are legal, because that would be a terrible reflection on the state of legal education in this country. 

I decided to comment on this thread because of my perceived quality of the counterclaim here, the sheer volume of comments and the constant back-and-forth between the OP, who seems an entirely honest and reasonable man, and people who, whilst trying to help, don't realise they are never going to be held accountable for the deficiencies of what they advise. If you want to truly help people, learn from mistakes made and don't just assume that it is all down to "judge bingo", it is entirely ridiculous that you presume to have greater expertise than sitting judges on matters they deal with all the time. 

This man's time and money has been wasted because you all tried, and I do not doubt your intentions, to make it seem like his case was iron-clad. Most lawyers I have dealt with don't give assessments on merits of people's cases like that so not to confuse them about the possible outcomes. I would urge that you consider to do the same. Help as much you can and are permitted to, but do so on things you full-well know and don't delude people as to the quality of their cases. It seems to me that you should exercise far greater caution, especially if the people you speak to on here have become claimants. It is very easy to put forward a jumbled up defence that pokes holes in the other side's case when you represent yourself and I do not doubt for a second that a lawyer would be able to poke far more and far bigger holes, but the entire landscape shifts as a claimant.

I say all this with the utmost cordiality and I do think places like this are important to guide people to the rights resources, but when that moves from guidance to legal advice, writing case papers for that person, and bigging their case up so much that they believe they will win without a shadow of a doubt, that becomes, imho, irresponsible. 

I do wonder if rather than just accumulating a few PCNs there is greater depth and involvement to their observation and intervention. When people set up an account throw in a controversial comment and leave without further engagement and clarification, we never really get to understand their motivation, or perhaps who they might represent.

@whatonearth1010 - Did you take a trip to the SW recently?

To me it is clear, that when counter claiming the onus shifts quite heavily and I feel it is well communicated that this is much more risky than merely upsetting the gravy train and challenging, and infinitely more risk than capitulating and paying. It can clearly be seen by how many times DCBL alone has discontinued that they come at this from a very weak position and are fully aware their pants are down. And in this very case they knew they had no grounds for claiming yet continued to hound and harass the defendant, only to drop their claim shortly before going to court! And then send an advocate to minimise their losses in the counter claim.

People have had enough. They feel that their lives are being torn apart and consumed by the unregulated bully boy tactics that these scammers continue to use in exploiting and extorting. As lay people and self-representing it must be overwhelming. Especially when the bullies send down the silver-tongued, smooth-talking advocate who can play a little bit of law bingo with the judge and then swan off back to the smoke, having put the upstart, from down in the sticks, (no disrespect) back in their box and collected a nice little fee for the fun day out.

Clearly there is an imbalance of power and a massive abuse of the system in play here. This needs to be reset.

Everyday people are paying these scammers out of fear, out of lack of knowledge. The scammers continual abuse of the legal process and roughshod treatment of the general and fundamental principles in law such as CRA and GDPR should be challenged, it is morally indefensible and professionally reprehensible. Some will take that challenge because they recognise what's occurring and want to do what is right. We should not berate those for what they are trying to achieve. 

The most significant thing is that those in power know this is going on. It can be seen that some judges are very aligned with the situation and are likely fully versed in the arguments being put forward. They will happily find for the defendant with very little persuasion needed, they also know the claimant generally is naked from the waist down. 

But the politicians need to earn their corn, see this scam for what it is, understand how deeply distressing and all consuming this has become for many many people and correct this without further delay.

Coupon-mad

Totally agree, @BikingBud

I don't know how some individuals involved in this rogue anti-consumer industry can sleep at night and I have been known to say as much to the DLUHC.

They know my view.  And I am still on the Steering Group and they are still listening.

I love the fact this forum is making such a difference AND that some PPCs hate what we do so much, that some even post here.

The last thing we need is a lecture not to try counterclaims and suggesting we don't know what we're doing. I beg to differ. We know exactly what we are doing and if we can't win 'em all (battles) we can win the war.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

kryten3000

BikingBud said:

What an "interesting" post.

It certainly is.  There's more experience and expertise here on this subject than anywhere else. I am grateful for the excellent advice and guidance from the regulars here which has helped me and countless others to avoid paying out to the perpetrators of the "outrageous scam".   I've been providing my own advice and assistance in other places with much success and have seen first hand the workings of the courts.  "Judge bingo" is real, but even a loss usually costs the PPCs more than the judgment amount, so that is at least some consolation.

fisherjim

I find it amazing that someone joins for advice on here, because they clearly haven't a clue about private car parks hence getting "a couple of PCN's" and then go on to criticize regulars that have been watching this rogue industry evolve daily for years.

Clearly @WhatOnEarth1010 on the one hand is so inexperienced they can accumulate PCN's, but think they are so clever they can call out people that have seen and helped with thousands.

I know who I would go with, the ones that have helped so many beat the scammers at their own game time and time again even against paid legals, and the evidence on here shows time and time again that some of the judges involved are clueless about parking issues.

At the end of the day it is a forum, the OP made up their own mind, and was not vastly out of pocket.

Castle

fisherjim said:

I find it amazing that someone joins for advice on here, because they clearly haven't a clue about private car parks hence getting "a couple of PCN's" and then go on to criticize regulars that have been watching this rogue industry evolve daily for years.

Clearly @WhatOnEarth1010 on the one hand is so inexperienced they can accumulate PCN's, but think they are so clever they can call out people that have seen and helped with thousands.

I know who I would go with, the ones that have helped so many beat the scammers at their own game time and time again even against paid legals, and the evidence on here shows time and time again that some of the judges involved are clueless about parking issues.

At the end of the day it is a forum, the OP made up their own mind, and was not vastly out of pocket.

And had it been a different court, Southampton for example, it probably would had been a different outcome.

stuart_c2023

Blimey, didn't expect to come back and read this.

I don't believe @WhatOnEarth1010 is the advocate from my case, as he said he had already posted here and just doesn't read like his style.

As I've said before I am grateful for the help and advice I have received on here and apart from the long hours lost I'm no worse off than if I'd paid the original PCN let alone the inflated figures when it was escalated, with the comfort of knowing none of my outlay has gone to Premier Park, who will be out of pocket way beyond what I was claiming from them..   

PDJAM

A colleague of Whatever2023 maybe?