Returned goods too many times?

13

Comments

  • ArbitraryRandom
    ArbitraryRandom Posts: 2,454 Forumite
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    edited 24 October 2023 at 8:24AM
    Okell said:
    ldncase said:
    I am not sure from the reading whether the company:
    1. accepted and shipped an order and only said "too many returns" when you reached the point of sending this order back.
    2. saw a pattern of repeated returns and therefore blocked the account from further purchases.

    If the case is (1), then the OP should be able to return under 14-day for any or no reason.

    If the case is (2), then I don't see that it is unreasonable for the supplier to have a process to block customers based upon an excessive returns history.

    ... This order with a dispute was from a couple months ago,  after that, I had placed a couple orders and returned them without issues. Then the dispute happened, ... I'm cool if they have decided to ban me, but they cannot use that 'I've returned too many times' for this ongoing dispute!...

    Why not?

    Contract terms (including right of return/refund) are set at point of sale - so items already purchased and returned should be processed as per the rights the customer had at the point of purchase/dispatch (depending on the terms), with any new terms only applying to future attempts to purchase goods. 

    I would however say to the OP that 'having signed for a parcel' isn't the same as them confirming receipt of the items you claim were within the parcel - As you have suggested... some customers do try to abuse the system, until the retailer notices a pattern and stops refunding. 
    I'm not an early bird or a night owl; I’m some form of permanently exhausted pigeon.
  • the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    the_lunatic_is_in_my_head Posts: 7,530 Forumite
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    edited 24 October 2023 at 10:28AM
    ldncase said:

    No, I was told by PayPal that the merchant took issue with my returns in total!
    I'm assume you opened a Not As Described dispute with Paypal, their terms are loose as they say 

    PayPal determines, in its sole discretion, whether your claim is eligible for the Buyer Protection program based on the eligibility requirements as set out in the User Agreement and any information or documentation provided during the resolution process, or any other information PayPal deems relevant and appropriate under the circumstances.

    You can follow their complaint procudure

    https://www.paypal.com/uk/cshelp/complaints

    and then complain to the UK Financial Ombudsman Service after exhausting the Paypal process.

    The other option is to send a letter before action to the retailer and then consider small claims (assuming the T&C page says the contract is governed by the laws of England & Wales rather than being overseas, for Scotland and NI I'm not sure what the processes are there).  
  • ldncase
    ldncase Posts: 67 Forumite
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    edited 24 October 2023 at 10:25AM
    Okell said:
    ldncase said:
    I am not sure from the reading whether the company:
    1. accepted and shipped an order and only said "too many returns" when you reached the point of sending this order back.
    2. saw a pattern of repeated returns and therefore blocked the account from further purchases.

    If the case is (1), then the OP should be able to return under 14-day for any or no reason.

    If the case is (2), then I don't see that it is unreasonable for the supplier to have a process to block customers based upon an excessive returns history.

    ... This order with a dispute was from a couple months ago,  after that, I had placed a couple orders and returned them without issues. Then the dispute happened, ... I'm cool if they have decided to ban me, but they cannot use that 'I've returned too many times' for this ongoing dispute!...

    Why not?

    Contract terms (including right of return/refund) are set at point of sale - so items already purchased and returned should be processed as per the rights the customer had at the point of purchase/dispatch (depending on the terms), with any new terms only applying to future attempts to purchase goods. 

    I would however say to the OP that 'having signed for a parcel' isn't the same as them confirming receipt of the items you claim were within the parcel - As you have suggested... some customers do try to abuse the system, until the retailer notices a pattern and stops refunding. 
    No, the merchant has no idea of where the item/parcel is. In their original words, they said, the ITEM has never been scanned. But they also told me that they has double checked with Royal Mail(their free return provider) that the PARCEL cannot be located. But from the tracking, it clearly shows it's been signed, and I even called RM to check the GPS location, which is this big warehourse park shared by many brands and companies.  

    As I said in another reply, I've had problems with returns sorted in this warehouse. Other companies also fail to refund items rather often.  


  • born_again
    born_again Posts: 14,309 Forumite
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    To confirm OP it is PayPal that is having a problem with the volume of returns rather than the retailer? 

    Can you not pay directly by card in future? 

    @born_again might be able to advise on a chargeback if the PayPal payment was funded by a card. 

    But 1st point has to be via PP & if PP is funded by DD & not a card payment, then there is no option to dispute via bank. As Direct Debit has no dispute right in this case.

    Might work, might not given retailer is saying goods not received.


    Life in the slow lane
  • TELLIT01
    TELLIT01 Posts: 16,442 Forumite
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    Many online retailers have started charging for returns unless they are faulty.  This example shows why.
  • Exodi
    Exodi Posts: 2,848 Forumite
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    edited 25 October 2023 at 4:05PM
    TELLIT01 said:
    Many online retailers have started charging for returns unless they are faulty.  This example shows why.
    Yeah, don't look at the OP's other threads.

    I run a business that sells items available in multiple sizes on Amazon (with all the various sizes and measurements on the listing) and I have to say, we 'enjoy' a returns rate of around 10%, which is incredibly high for us (though I'm aware this is less than the typical online fast fashion retailer), outside of Amazon our return rate is less than 1%. It is not uncommon for a customer to purchase the same item in three different sizes and return two of them with fault reason of 'size issue'. They simply do not care that the business will incur two set of delivery charges, potentially more if it needs to go back to us, possible repackaging costs, etc.

    Consumer ignorance can not last forever. Businesses have to make a profit, everyone has to pay the cost of this modern selfish practice. It's like people think because you don't see someone when you do it, no-one gets affected.
    Know what you don't
  • Bradden
    Bradden Posts: 1,075 Forumite
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    Exodi said:
    TELLIT01 said:
    Many online retailers have started charging for returns unless they are faulty.  This example shows why.
    Yeah, don't look at the OP's other threads.

    I run a business that sells items available in multiple sizes on Amazon (with all the various sizes and measurements on the listing) and I have to say, we 'enjoy' a returns rate of around 10%, which is incredibly high for us (though I'm aware this is less than the typical online fast fashion retailer), outside of Amazon our return rate is less than 1%. It is not uncommon for a customer to purchase the same item in three different sizes and return two of them with fault reason of 'size issue'. They simply do not care that the business will incur two set of delivery charges, potentially more if it needs to go back to us, possible repackaging costs, etc.

    Consumer ignorance can not last forever. Businesses have to make a profit, everyone has to pay the cost of this modern selfish practice. It's like people think because you don't see someone when you do it, no-one gets affected.
    Free returns are the same as lots of other nice things, eventually a small group spoil it for everyone else and the nice thing ends. 
    Whilst that is true... retailers also enjoy a much bigger customer base with online shopping/distance sales - the downside is returns.

    If a customer cannot try clothing on prior to purchase then i see nothing wrong with buying multiple sizes and returning those not needed.

    If they were buying in a shop then they would be able to try them on - it doesn't seem unreasonable to do the same at home. Some retailers don't even have shops and save on rents etc significantly with only offering online sales via Amazon etc. They should factor in these costs not blame the consumer IMHO.




  • born_again
    born_again Posts: 14,309 Forumite
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    Bradden said:
    Exodi said:
    TELLIT01 said:
    Many online retailers have started charging for returns unless they are faulty.  This example shows why.
    Yeah, don't look at the OP's other threads.

    I run a business that sells items available in multiple sizes on Amazon (with all the various sizes and measurements on the listing) and I have to say, we 'enjoy' a returns rate of around 10%, which is incredibly high for us (though I'm aware this is less than the typical online fast fashion retailer), outside of Amazon our return rate is less than 1%. It is not uncommon for a customer to purchase the same item in three different sizes and return two of them with fault reason of 'size issue'. They simply do not care that the business will incur two set of delivery charges, potentially more if it needs to go back to us, possible repackaging costs, etc.

    Consumer ignorance can not last forever. Businesses have to make a profit, everyone has to pay the cost of this modern selfish practice. It's like people think because you don't see someone when you do it, no-one gets affected.
    Free returns are the same as lots of other nice things, eventually a small group spoil it for everyone else and the nice thing ends. 
    Whilst that is true... retailers also enjoy a much bigger customer base with online shopping/distance sales - the downside is returns.

    If a customer cannot try clothing on prior to purchase then i see nothing wrong with buying multiple sizes and returning those not needed.

    If they were buying in a shop then they would be able to try them on - it doesn't seem unreasonable to do the same at home. Some retailers don't even have shops and save on rents etc significantly with only offering online sales via Amazon etc. They should factor in these costs not blame the consumer IMHO.




    I look at it like this.
    When you go to a shop. Does the retailer pay for you to get there & home, or if any issues with product later pay for that trip?

    So why should a retailer have to pay for returns when it is the buyer purchasing more than they need. You could just buy one, if it fits great, if not you have a guide for the size required.

    Life in the slow lane
  • Jonboy_1984
    Jonboy_1984 Posts: 1,218 Forumite
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    For me it is reasonable because uk retailers are so inconsistent on sizing. I know some people that can be anywhere from a 12 to an 18 in womens clothing depending on the shop.

    A few years back I bought three of the same design jeans from a retailer, having tried a pair of blue in the changing rooms, I went back and picked up another identical pair, and a pair in black in the same size. Got home and the second two didn’t fit…

    If retailers were consistent to their own sizing, let along the rest of the high street/e-commerce world, this issue would have a lot less distance to run.


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