Electric radiators placements - advice

GingerTim

MultiFuelBurner said:

Gerry1 said:

The crippling cost of running panel heaters on daytime electricity will reduce the value of your flat and make it difficult to sell.

Most potential buyers will run a mile !

Do you really believe this to be true?

Most people that don't frequent these type of forums have no idea.

I realise that I'm a Forum Frequenter, but I'm with Gerry - I did indeed run a mile from a really nice flat I viewed when told that it was running panel heaters.

EssexHebridean

GingerTim said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Gerry1 said:

The crippling cost of running panel heaters on daytime electricity will reduce the value of your flat and make it difficult to sell.

Most potential buyers will run a mile !

Do you really believe this to be true?

Most people that don't frequent these type of forums have no idea.

I realise that I'm a Forum Frequenter, but I'm with Gerry - I did indeed run a mile from a really nice flat I viewed when told that it was running panel heaters.

We pretty much dismissed houses that had similar setups when we were looking - having to replace an existing GCH setup would have been one thing - having to have one installed from scratch was NOT something we were up for, and clearly neither was trying to heat somewhere using panel heaters!! Interesting our estate agent agreed that far more people now had knowledge around the varying heating types than would have been the case pre pandemic as well - when he originally visited to value the flat we were selling he was most approving of the Quantum NSH, and commented that they were a good selling point these days. 

GingerTim

EssexHebridean said:

GingerTim said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Gerry1 said:

The crippling cost of running panel heaters on daytime electricity will reduce the value of your flat and make it difficult to sell.

Most potential buyers will run a mile !

Do you really believe this to be true?

Most people that don't frequent these type of forums have no idea.

I realise that I'm a Forum Frequenter, but I'm with Gerry - I did indeed run a mile from a really nice flat I viewed when told that it was running panel heaters.

We pretty much dismissed houses that had similar setups when we were looking - having to replace an existing GCH setup would have been one thing - having to have one installed from scratch was NOT something we were up for, and clearly neither was trying to heat somewhere using panel heaters!! Interesting our estate agent agreed that far more people now had knowledge around the varying heating types than would have been the case pre pandemic as well - when he originally visited to value the flat we were selling he was most approving of the Quantum NSH, and commented that they were a good selling point these days. 

My heart sank when the owner of this particular flat told me they'd ripped out storage heaters and installed 'more efficient' panel heaters!

Gerry1

MultiFuelBurner said:

Gerry1 said:

The crippling cost of running panel heaters on daytime electricity will reduce the value of your flat and make it difficult to sell.

Most potential buyers will run a mile !

Do you really believe this to be true?

Most people that don't frequent these type of forums have no idea.

Absolutely ! 

That may have been the case many years ago when energy was cheap as chips, gas was charged in BTUs and people couldn't or didn't switch suppliers.

But since the energy crisis everyone is only too well aware of the high costs of heating, especially with general inflation and rocketing mortgage interest rates.

You don't have to be an anorak to realise that having to use daytime electricity at four times the price of gas won't end well.

Rippone

Thank you everyone for your valuable insights! 

To reply to the person who was asking how I know what my winter usage could be - I based my prediction on March / April 2023 data. 

But I was wrong, I should have looked at February 2023, as in March and April I spent some weeks abroad.

After winter I mostly stayed abroad looking after my parents, but the usage of electricity over the summer period shows with consistency that I should need about 150 kW/h monthly in the future.

So, let's consider what I used in February 2023, which is 480 kW/h. 

480 kW/h at current single rate is £136.45 (plus standing charge).
If I switched to E7 with Scottish Power (the provider I am with now), estimating an usage of 25% day and 75% night electricity, I should spend £102.04 (plus standing charge).

The difference is £35 per (cold) months = which means I would pay £210 more per year in heating with "normal" heaters over HHR. It would take years to be on par if I get HHR now, and in the short / medium term it does not pay off. And some of the cost/benefits might also be offset during warmer months, when my only nighttime electricity usage will be heating the water tank. 

Am I wrong in doing this maths? 

I am also not really convinced that the value of my property will significantly be influenced by having / not having HHR in 5+ years time. I live in London zone 3, 10 mins walking from Northern line, private parking space, quiet residential area. Lots of perks that will make my flat hopefully be desirable to future buyers. I have read an article (here on MSE perhaps) that EPC ratings seem not to have a significant impact on house value in London (as it has in other areas of the Country).

I will definitely consider improving insulation of my flat, as suggested here. I am looking now at insulate plasterboards as an option - I am asking around for some quotes. I will add some more layers of mineral wool in my loft too. 

EssexHebridean

I took your reference - in your OP I believe - to having recently moved  in to mean you’ve not been in the property through a winter yet. If in fact you have, then basing your use on a previous winter probably plus 20% to account for expected temperature variations is absolutely the right way of doing things, as long as nothing else has changed and all you are doing is updating existing panel heaters. 

Gerry1

I fear your conclusions may be inaccurate because of mistakes and misunderstandings.

So, let's consider what I used in February 2023, which is 480 kW/h.

Never look at just one month in isolation.  It can easily be skewed by just a couple of days that are milder or colder than usual, especially in the shortest month.  If you don't have annual usage from actual meter readings you could consider Ofgem's TDCV figures for all-electric properties which are Low 2200kWh, Medium 3900kWh and High 6700kWh.  Note that it's kWh, not kW/h.

I am also not really convinced that the value of my property will significantly be influenced by having / not having HHR in 5+ years time. I live in London zone 3, 10 mins walking from Northern line, private parking space, quiet residential area. Lots of perks that will make my flat hopefully be desirable to future buyers. I have read an article (here on MSE perhaps) that EPC ratings seem not to have a significant impact on house value in London (as it has in other areas of the Country).

Scores of other properties will meet all those criteria and qualify for potential buyers' long lists.

OK, they may not take much notice of the EPC figure per se.  But even if it's not a red line, having day rate panel heaters will often mean that your property will be filtered out before reaching their short lists.