Electric radiators placements - advice

Rippone

Hello everyone,

Very inexperienced here. I recently bought my first flat, I am making some renovation works, and I need some advice on radiators placement. I am getting different recommendations and I would like to seek more opinions before making the finale decision. 

My flat is electricity only, no storage heaters. EPC D. Top floor, south facing, 3 sides facing  outside.  

I am thinking about placing a 2000W radiator in the main bedroom, a 2000W in the living room, and a smaller (1000/1500W) in the small bedroom. Would that be sufficient?  

Do you think is a mistake not having a radiator in the hallway? The previous owner had a 2000W in the hallway, a 2000W in the living room, and 2 very small portable ones in the bedrooms. 

I spoke with few builders, and some have advised that a radiator in the hallway is necessary to support the living room and keeping the heat in the bedrooms, others have said that is not because of size of the flat and how small the hallway is.

What's your view on this?  

GingerTim

Are these wet radiators? Honestly, I'd be inclined to install storage heaters, the costs of running electric radiators are going to be huge (assuming the insulation is not brilliant at EPC D).

MattMattMattUK

How old is the flat, neighbours on two sides, and below? A well insulated modern flat will need less heating than an older one.

I live in a 110sq. m. flat, modern, very well insulated, four years old, it is electric only and has panel heaters, it is not expensive to run because it leaks very little heat, I have neighbours on two sides, above and below, but comparatively an older flat on a top floor even with half the square footage could easily require 3-5 times the heat to stay warm than I need. 

You also need to estimate your total consumption, if you can get most usage to off peak then as Tim says storage heaters running on E7, together with heating your water at night would work out far cheaper, but if you have a lot of daytime use that cannot be shifted then you have to work out the difference. 

Swipe

At EPC D rating sounds like they will be expensive to run

MattMattMattUK

Swipe said:

At EPC D rating sounds like they will be expensive to run

I would suspect so, but it does depend what the specifics within the EPC D are, I suspect that storage heaters are going to be a far cheaper option. 

Rippone

MattMattMattUK said:

How old is the flat, neighbours on two sides, and below? A well insulated modern flat will need less heating than an older one.

I live in a 110sq. m. flat, modern, very well insulated, four years old, it is electric only and has panel heaters, it is not expensive to run because it leaks very little heat, I have neighbours on two sides, above and below, but comparatively an older flat on a top floor even with half the square footage could easily require 3-5 times the heat to stay warm than I need. 

You also need to estimate your total consumption, if you can get most usage to off peak then as Tim says storage heaters running on E7, together with heating your water at night would work out far cheaper, but if you have a lot of daytime use that cannot be shifted then you have to work out the difference. 

The block of flats was built in the late 80s. I live top floor, with neighbours only below me. On the north side (where hallway, bathroom, kitchen are) there is the communal area of the property with a staircase. I am exposed on the South, East, and West sides

Summertime usage is about 150 kW/h. During deep winter about 350 kW/h. 

For the HRR storage heaters I was quoted £4000. If I install electric ceramic radiators, I would spend roughly £1000. I made the maths, and if my calculation are correct, given my day/time electricity usage, HHR heaters would start paying off in 4 to 5 years. 

I don't know where I will be in 5 years, it is possible I may not be in the same property by then. Because of this, and because I much prefer the flexibility of using electricity on demand, I have opted to install electric ceramic radiators. 

Hope this makes sense  

Thank you everyone for your responses! 

Rippone

I am also pushing to have cavity walls insulated, but so far I have been ignored by the property management. 

Where I am unclear however is more like whether 2K W heaters in the living room and in the main bedroom, plus a 1.5K W in the small bedroom would be enough to warm the flat, or if one in the hallway is needed

TheElectricCow

Insulation is probably going to be the biggest factor in how much heating power you’ll need. Options may be limited for a top floor flat, but getting the place as best insulated as possible will be far more beneficial in the long run than adding more heat output.

If heat leakage is a problem that you can’t practically resolve then storage heaters may be a better solution overall, that way you can keep a constant heat supply going during the day while using off-peak energy prices.

If you’re still sticking with the panels then with 2000w ones installed I personally wouldn’t worry about a hall one, but again we’re back to the insulation point because if too much heat is escaping you might find the extra one necessary. I have a modern flat of similar-ish size and find the 3x1500w panels here quite effortlessly heat the place far hotter than I could ever want for myself, and it really doesn’t take long to push the ambient temperature up to their max setting of about 30c.

Only thing I would recommend is a decent heated towel rail with programmable timers to keep the bathroom warm when you need it. A cold bathroom in the mornings is the only thing I’d find particularly unpleasant over winter here.

EssexHebridean

The position of the property probably explains the EPC rating then, you will get some benefit from having prod below but it likely won’t offset the other sides and above being exposed.

I’m not quite sure where you are getting your winter figure from allowing that you said you’d recently moved in? I would suggest that 350kWh a month in mid winter is VERY optimistic for your property. Our previous home was a ground floor 2 bed flat with storage heaters. Last January we used around 700kWh - of which over 600 was on the off peak rate. That was heating to around 18 degrees for the most part, we are definitely “long sleeves and jumper” rather than “crank it up to tropical” people! At currently E7 rates in this area that off peak use would cost us around £100. Had it been on a standard single rate day rate that would have been £168. (Figures are approximate and yours will vary depends on tariff options and region) I should add that our use was without any coking thrown into the mix as we had a gas cooker. That was also for a not particularly cold January. 

Be very wary of anyone selling you a particular kind of electric heater that they claim to be somehow magically “more efficient” than any other on the market too - this is sadly under the heading of too good to be true.  

One alternative to look at would be the level down on storage heaters - so not the full HHR ones, but still better insulated and far more controllable than the old style ones, and so also far cheaper to run. Those can also be bought refurbished from various reputable outlets for a substantial cost saving. 

Gerry1

The crippling cost of running panel heaters on daytime electricity will reduce the value of your flat and make it difficult to sell.

Most potential buyers will run a mile !

FreeBear

TheElectricCow said:

Insulation is probably going to be the biggest factor in how much heating power you’ll need. Options may be limited for a top floor flat, but getting the place as best insulated as possible will be far more beneficial in the long run than adding more heat output.

Agreed, insulation will make a big difference. Even just 50mm of insulated plasterboard on the three external walls will cut the heat loss significantly. If there is access to the loft, check the level of insulation up there and top it up if less than 300mm.

Once the heat loss has been addressed, install some HHR storage heaters - There are calculators online that will help in selecting the most appropriate heat output for the room size. Tip - Hang the heaters on an internal wall rather than sticking them under a window. That way you are not pumping heat in to an external wall and wasting it.