Balance readjustment due to high loss of gas through large water leak???

JandleCandy

Hi,

This might get long.

We recently discovered a huge underground water burst that apparently had been leaking for about half a year. Our water bill only comes twice a year so it wasn’t noticed quickly at all. We fixed it within 10 days of noticing it.
We had been having trouble with our gas meter readings. The smart meter stopped sending automatic readings, and when I attempted to put in manually, it kept saying “error” or that the number didn’t match with our previous reading. I called SSE (before the merge) and they also said it was abnormal but didn’t do anything to help solve. I called about once a month because I couldn’t submit a reading. I now know this is because of the water leak.

Our account shows that during those 6 months of big water leak, we used 100,000 or even 200,000 kWh of gas. This a huge amount that obviously wasn’t being actively used. Before and after the leak we were using maybe between 10,000-12,000.

Our gas balance shows over £4,000 for only 6 months. Again, this is very high and not anything near normal, especially since we were away for one month in summer. And with the cost of living being so high, this is a huge blow to us.

 

My question is, will I be able to have the balance adjusted or some sort of allowance because the gas wasn’t being actively used and it was basically leaking out with the water leak?

MattMattMattUK

JandleCandy said:

Hi,

This might get long.

We recently discovered a huge underground water burst that apparently had been leaking for about half a year. Our water bill only comes twice a year so it wasn’t noticed quickly at all. We fixed it within 10 days of noticing it.
We had been having trouble with our gas meter readings. The smart meter stopped sending automatic readings, and when I attempted to put in manually, it kept saying “error” or that the number didn’t match with our previous reading. I called SSE (before the merge) and they also said it was abnormal but didn’t do anything to help solve. I called about once a month because I couldn’t submit a reading. I now know this is because of the water leak.

Our account shows that during those 6 months of big water leak, we used 100,000 or even 200,000 kWh of gas. This a huge amount that obviously wasn’t being actively used. Before and after the leak we were using maybe between 10,000-12,000.

Our gas balance shows over £4,000 for only 6 months. Again, this is very high and not anything near normal, especially since we were away for one month in summer. And with the cost of living being so high, this is a huge blow to us.

 

My question is, will I be able to have the balance adjusted or some sort of allowance because the gas wasn’t being actively used and it was basically leaking out with the water leak?

Have you established if the meter reads are correct? Apart from that the answer is likely no, the leak was on your side of the meter and so your responsibility. What caused both the water supply and gas supply to rupture, did you have any building work done that fractured both pipes? 

ArbitraryRandom

That would also be my question - where was the leak and what caused it (and was there actually a gas leak or was the water somehow interfering with the meter)?

I'm assuming at this point that the meters for both gas and electric are outside the home (given a significant gas or water leak inside the property would presumably have been easier to spot). 

JandleCandy

MattMattMattUK said:

Have you established if the meter reads are correct? Apart from that the answer is likely no, the leak was on your side of the meter and so your responsibility. What caused both the water supply and gas supply to rupture, did you have any building work done that fractured both pipes? 

ArbitraryRandom said:

That would also be my question - where was the leak and what caused it (and was there actually a gas leak or was the water somehow interfering with the meter)?

I'm assuming at this point that the meters for both gas and electric are outside the home (given a significant gas or water leak inside the property would presumably have been easier to spot). 

We at first thought the meter was faulty, but the readings are correct and correlate directly with the timing of the water leak. When the water leak was fixed, the gas usage went back to normal straight away. 
The water pipe had a huge rupture which the plumber said was just due to old age. The leak was in a pipe in the back garden running from the house to the utility room. We rent and just moved here Spring 2022, so I'm not sure how much that sort of stuff has been updated recently, but no building work has been done since we've been here. Our plumber who fixed the leak believes that the amount of water leaking through the water pipe was high pressure enough that it triggered the boiler, which caused the boiler to try to heat that water nonstop for the 6 months, essentially heating water that was leaking out. So, while it's not technically a gas leak, the gas was not being actively consumed by us as it was heating the leaking water. And to be honest, after the leak was fixed, our water has been getting a lot hotter more quickly.

We received a balance readjustment and allowance from the water supplier, so I was hoping that something could be done to adjust the gas account balance as well, if we had enough proof to explain the situation.

Am I out of luck?

Gerry1

I fear you will be out of luck because the gas has been supplied and used, albeit not as you intended.  It might be covered by buildings insurance but that probably isn't relevant as you're renting.

However, some energy suppliers have hardship funds available, so it may be worth enquiring.  IIRC sometimes you may not even have to be a customer (BG perhaps?)

MultiFuelBurner

You didn't notice your boiler on non stop for 6 months?

Have you got home insurance that covers leaks?

barbuda

Hi, yes you were unlucky to have a burst in your hot water pipe, the boiler would see it as a tap running, so it fired up sadly for 6 months...
You should tell your landlord that his water pipe has burst and through no fault of your own you have incurred a large gas bill.
If the water pipe had burst upstairs under the floorboards, and caused the ceiling to collapse then that would be the landlords responsibility and he would have to make good the damage.
Just because the leak was in the garden doesn't mean the landlord isn't responsible.
Either way its not your water pipe it belongs to the landlord and he has to maintain it.

ArbitraryRandom

I agree this would seem on the face of it to be similar to people who accidentally leave their emersion heater on boost for months - unfortunate but not the gas company's fault as there were no problems with the gas supply or metering. The onus was on you to investigate why you were using so much gas (which would include checking if the boiler was working correctly vs constantly heating water). 

My advice would be to ask them (nicely) if there's anything they can do to help you afford the bill and they should agree to a payment plan/might knock some off as a good will gesture. 

The other option (not that I recommend it) is to try and get your landlord to pay towards it given the water pipes are his responsibility and the boiler should have been checked annually (which I would have thought would have flagged the boiler behaving strangely). 

Scot_39

IIRC The water company views supply pipes into the property or drains etc as belonging to the person paying the bill - tenant or owner - if sends a bill for repair work.  And it's then as far as they are concerned a seperate civil matter between landlord and tennant who ultimately pays.

But this was not a supply pipe - wasn't clear from thread title - but now seemingly an internal hot water pipe.

And should I suspect as the ceiling pipe example - have been dealt with via the landlords building insurance - as arguably should the pipe repair costs be met by landlord or his insurance.

That would not be the sort of work covered by minor normal maintainence tasks reasonably expected of tennants (washing windows, clearing gutters ?, replacing worn tap washers etc).

But I suspect few will fully compensate given 6 months plus to spot the error.  Given clearly op was aware of gas reading issues for a while.

Some won't even entertain claims if not notified of a problem - once known anyway - within 24 or 48 hours or first working day.

A domestic combi boiler can be rated 25-40kW max peak heat output from site of one large uk supplier for heating hot water at a decent flow rate.

Say it used half say mid point 32/2 for a major leak = 16kW during largish leak.

16x24 = 384kWh daily
X30 = 11520 kWh monthly
X6 = 69000 kWh

But seems unlikely to have been that bad -  as most would have  surely noticed near boiler constant activity - especially if new gas meter readings getting high (most would probably even switched gas aplliances off as a sanity check on suspecting a meter fault ) or heard such a large water leak flowing through pipework.

Depends on the size of a leak - but even a dripping tap can leak 10s of litres a day (one drop per second = 21 litres from google site searches = 1kWh to heat from 10 to 55C ) and so run up a water bill if metered and a heating bill if hot water in tank - suspect lot less so on combi.

A small trickle - higher obviously. 

Even a small -barely above a regular drip - can waste 100s of litres a day - costing 10s kWh to heat and add £s to water bills.

Try opening a tap to just above drip level and measuring the volume - over just a few minutes - you might be surprised - edit "or should I say shocked at the potential cost"

barbuda

Yes it is a pipe from the boiler, the pipe then goes underground to the utility room.
If the landlord installed the pipe then it belongs to him and it is his responsibility, and it follows that If the burst pipe has caused a loss to the tenant, then the landlord is liable.

Going back to previous post comparing a burst pipe causing a ceiling to collapse, if there was a £1000 computer damaged by the collapse, then the tenant has suffered a loss and should claim against the landlord.

In this instance, although the pipe is underground and no physical damage has been caused, there has still been a financial loss to the tenant, and the landlord is still liable.
The property could be commercial with the tenant being liable for repairs, but that info is unknown, also claiming against your landlord wouldn't make you a popular tenant, but the utility company supplying the gas has no involvement in this apart from maybe offering payment in stages.

bryanb

So you have an underground hot water pipe in the garden?