Mis-sold kitchen or appliance? Help!

FlaatusGoat

So I'm in a spot of bother with a major kitchen supplier starting with the letter H. Put simply, I was sold a built in microwave. Great. Unfortunately Lamona appliances aren't the best nor the cheapest, so I decided to supply my own. In the course of fitting, I've now realized the microwave has too much depth and won't sit flush in the wall unit. I'm annoyed to say the least as I was never told that there would be an issue here, dishwasher. Fine. Washing machine. Fine. Fridge/Freezer. Fine. Now I'm lumbered with a microwave that's about 2 inches too deep.

Unfortunately the appliance shop will not take the machine back, particularly so as I had to cut the plug to route the wire through the wall units neatly in the plug. I paid by card. I was told most in-built microwaves sit above an oven and those units normally have the sufficient depth - whereas I'm lumbered with a shallow wall unit. So I'm £150 down on a microwave and I'm stuck with a recess that is apparently too shallow to fit most microwaves (290MM)

Where does the responsibility lie (I know I'll be firmly told ME but I was genuinely none the wiser and at no point was this pointed out to me by anyone)

Aylesbury_Duck

FlaatusGoat said:

So I'm in a spot of bother with a major kitchen supplier starting with the letter H. Put simply, I was sold a built in microwave. Great. Unfortunately Lamona appliances aren't the best nor the cheapest, so I decided to supply my own. In the course of fitting, I've now realized the microwave has too much depth and won't sit flush in the wall unit. I'm annoyed to say the least as I was never told that there would be an issue here, dishwasher. Fine. Washing machine. Fine. Fridge/Freezer. Fine. Now I'm lumbered with a microwave that's about 2 inches too deep.

Unfortunately the appliance shop will not take the machine back, particularly so as I had to cut the plug to route the wire through the wall units neatly in the plug. I paid by card. I was told most in-built microwaves sit above an oven and those units normally have the sufficient depth - whereas I'm lumbered with a shallow wall unit. So I'm £150 down on a microwave and I'm stuck with a recess that is apparently too shallow to fit most microwaves (290MM)

Where does the responsibility lie (I know I'll be firmly told ME but I was genuinely none the wiser and at no point was this pointed out to me by anyone)

I'm afraid I'm going to confirm what you suspected.  I can't see that Howdens have done anything wrong unless they misrepresented the dimensions of the housing unit, and the microwave retailer is blameless unless they misdescribed the unit's dimensions.  

I can't think who should have pointed anything out to you, either?  Howdens should tell you which of all the hundreds of microwaves on the market will and won't fit their units?  The microwave retailer should warn you that some kitchen suppliers have different depth cabinets?  I don't see that as a realistic expectation.

Your best bet is to sell the microwave for what you can, and buy one that does fit the unit.

user1977

"Mis-selling" isn't a useful term to use other than where it actually means something e.g. in regulated environments such as getting a mortgage.

Anyway...distance sale or out of a real shop? What measurements were wrong (not clear from your post)? Are you saying the dimensions of the microwave don't match its description? If so then you ought to have a right to return.

FlaatusGoat

user1977 said:

"Mis-selling" isn't a useful term to use other than where it actually means something e.g. in regulated environments such as getting a mortgage.

Anyway...distance sale or out of a real shop? What measurements were wrong (not clear from your post)? Are you saying the dimensions of the microwave don't match its description? If so then you ought to have a right to return.

Real shop, yes. However they sell refurbished or end of line appliances directly from manufacturers so that apparently 'allows' them to only offer credit notes. In fact I was told they didn't have to offer me any refund but since they were feeling nice they'd offer me a credit. Not that I'd have a problem with that necessarily but they had no alternative 'compact' built in microwaves. These apparently have a depth of about 317mm (inc bezel) and by my estimate would have fit my 290mm aperture. Ah this wonderful thing called the school of life?!

They don't offer 'specifications' other than that one's brand X and this one is brand B. Oh and they're integrated. Take your pick and good luck. I'm still very annoyed that I should have been born with this apparent oh-so-obvious knowledge but I wasn't.

Alderbank

Just to clarify:

• You have a kitchen.
• The kitchen has a 600mm wide recess which is 290mm deep.
• You would like to fit a built-in microwave in that recess.
• You decided to buy and fit your own so you bought a microwave. The microwave you bought is about 2 inches deeper than the recess. 

Consumer law says that you can say to the trader, 'I need a microwave which will fit into a recess 290mm deep.' If the microwave you buy as a result does not fit that recess it does not conform to contract and you can demand a full refund.
Did you ask that question? If not, then the only responsibility the trader has with regard to the front-to-back dimensions is to make sure that it conforms to the advertised sizes

Perhaps you did not ask that question. If you bought the microwave online without any face-to-face contact with the trader you can change your mind about it for any reason and return it for a refund provided you tell the trader within 14 days of receiving it.
I don't think they can refuse to accept it back if you have cut the plug off. They can however reduce the amount of refund to reflect anything you have done to reduce its value, so you should expect to pay the cost of a new mains flex and plug to be fitted. You are usually also responsible for the cost of returning it. 

Who did you buy the microwave from and how did you pay?
Howdens do not sell to consumers. They say 'As a consumer, you need a trade professional to buy from us. We can put you in touch with a tradesperson in your local area.' So you would buy from and your consumer rights are with a local builder.

eskbanker

FlaatusGoat said:

Real shop, yes. However they sell refurbished or end of line appliances directly from manufacturers so that apparently 'allows' them to only offer credit notes. In fact I was told they didn't have to offer me any refund but since they were feeling nice they'd offer me a credit.

They're right - regardless of where a shop sources its stock from, you have no legal right to a refund (or even a credit note) for non-faulty purchases, but the retailer should abide by its own returns policy.

born_again

FlaatusGoat said:

Where does the responsibility lie (I know I'll be firmly told ME but I was genuinely none the wiser and at no point was this pointed out to me by anyone)

Sadly with you.

After chopping plug of, retailer can not resell microwave, they would have to scrap it.

Aylesbury_Duck

FlaatusGoat said:

user1977 said:

"Mis-selling" isn't a useful term to use other than where it actually means something e.g. in regulated environments such as getting a mortgage.

Anyway...distance sale or out of a real shop? What measurements were wrong (not clear from your post)? Are you saying the dimensions of the microwave don't match its description? If so then you ought to have a right to return.

Real shop, yes. However they sell refurbished or end of line appliances directly from manufacturers so that apparently 'allows' them to only offer credit notes. In fact I was told they didn't have to offer me any refund but since they were feeling nice they'd offer me a credit. Not that I'd have a problem with that necessarily but they had no alternative 'compact' built in microwaves. These apparently have a depth of about 317mm (inc bezel) and by my estimate would have fit my 290mm aperture. Ah this wonderful thing called the school of life?!

They don't offer 'specifications' other than that one's brand X and this one is brand B. Oh and they're integrated. Take your pick and good luck. I'm still very annoyed that I should have been born with this apparent oh-so-obvious knowledge but I wasn't.

That's not really a reasonable expectation, though.  Presumably you chose this retailer to save a bit of money, when you could have purchased from a "normal" retailer that sells microwaves with clearly stated dimensions.  A quick check on the first retailer I thought of and a click on the first unit my mouse settled on, as an example:

https://www.johnlewis.com/zanussi-zmbn2sx-built-in-microwave-oven-black/p5089166

The size of the space needed for the oven to fit

H36 x W56.2 x D30cm

Argos's website is similar, as is Currys.  They all clearly state the dimensions of the unit.  I'm afraid that your annoyance is misplaced.  You shouldn't expect to be born with prior knowledge of integrated microwaves, but buying blind to save a few quid is the cause of your problem.

FlaatusGoat

Alderbank said:

Just to clarify:

• You have a kitchen.
• The kitchen has a 600mm wide recess which is 290mm deep.
• You would like to fit a built-in microwave in that recess.
• You decided to buy and fit your own so you bought a microwave. The microwave you bought is about 2 inches deeper than the recess. 

Consumer law says that you can say to the trader, 'I need a microwave which will fit into a recess 290mm deep.' If the microwave you buy as a result does not fit that recess it does not conform to contract and you can demand a full refund.
Did you ask that question? If not, then the only responsibility the trader has with regard to the front-to-back dimensions is to make sure that it conforms to the advertised sizes

Perhaps you did not ask that question. If you bought the microwave online without any face-to-face contact with the trader you can change your mind about it for any reason and return it for a refund provided you tell the trader within 14 days of receiving it.
I don't think they can refuse to accept it back if you have cut the plug off. They can however reduce the amount of refund to reflect anything you have done to reduce its value, so you should expect to pay the cost of a new mains flex and plug to be fitted. You are usually also responsible for the cost of returning it. 

Who did you buy the microwave from and how did you pay?
Howdens do not sell to consumers. They say 'As a consumer, you need a trade professional to buy from us. We can put you in touch with a tradesperson in your local area.' So you would buy from and your consumer rights are with a local builder.

I bought it from a small appliance reseller rather than the usual big boys - AO/Curries/etc. To me (the consumer) I'd very wrongly assumed an integrated microwave was akin to any other integrated appliance. And why shouldn't I. I've had no issue with the fridge,oven,dishwasher I bought from them that are all integrated. The store is basically a warehouse with a small sticker on each bare-unit stating model number and make. No emphasis on dimensions or 'this is a tower unit' or 'this is a wall unit'. I challenged them on this and they simply said 9/10 there's no issues as most integrated machines sit the same unit as the oven where there's always sufficient depth. I'm a rare exception apparently with my fancy kitchen.

Any any of this does consumer law apply to me at all? Like any re-course whatsoever. As I paid by card in a really extreme situation I suppose I could potentially challenge the payment via the bank. Obviously easier still if I'd paid by credit card to do a section 75 or whatever.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Unless you were able to demonstrate the trader mislead you, either through action or omission, there wouldn’t be any avenue for returning an in store purchase that conforms to the contract. 

Are kitchen units and integrated appliances standard depths or do they generally vary?

Aylesbury_Duck

I can't see that you have any rights under consumer law because I can't see where the retailer has been unreasonable, unless they haven't acted in accordance with their own returns policy?  Have you checked that policy thoroughly to see if they are correct?

A chargeback or section 75 claim will surely fail because you've received the item and no consumer law or contract has been breached.  Even if your bank issued a chargeback, the retailer would have the right - and the grounds - to challenge and reverse it.

Goodwill is your best bet.  Have you tried that approach?